| Author | Message | ||
     Contender |
Hi All - first post. I bought my Uly in Seattle in July and then spent a week riding it home to L.A. It was a rad trip. About a month ago the check engine light came on while riding, but then went back off. A few days later it barely started after work. The engine barely turned over and then luckily it started. It's been in my garage since, as I have been too busy with work to fool with it so I ride my TL1000s. I had the battery on a trickle charger for a couple days hoping that was the issue. Now it doesn't even turn over. The headlight goes out when I hit the start button, but that is ALL that happens. The previous owner said he replaced the stator at one point and I have read that those and the regulators are prone to failure. Also, the '77 connector' looks fine. No sign of shorting there. I swapped batteries and got the same thing. Connections were tight and there were no blown fuses. Also noted the following: When I turn the key, the headlights do not immediately come on. The needles sweep the gauges and the dash lights up, but the headlights do not always come on. When they do come on, they go off when the starter button is hit. Might anyone have any suggestions as to where I should start? I was about to order a regulator, but I would like to be a bit more confident that it is the problem. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Many thanks -Dustin | ||
| Britchri10 |
Check your grounds, especially the front one. poor grounding plays all kinds of havoc with Uly's. If the battery is fully charged & is holding a charge I would guess that this would be a good place to start. Chris C | ||
| Reepicheep |
The factory service manual has a fairly painful but highly effective charging system diagnostic walk through. That would be your best bet. The manual is pricey, but worth it. If you want to go out on your own, pull the 77 connector and diagnose the stator. Thats the easiest and most reliable test. Pin to pin, you should see fractions of an ohm (like 1.6 ohms, as I recall). Pin to ground, you should see infinity. If you start the bike and measure AC voltage across each pin to ground, you should see something like 20 volts at idle and it should climb with revs. (Somebody should double check my ohm and volt values above, I am going by intuition and an OLD memory). | ||
| Etennuly |
I had the same issue a long time ago on my '06. Several people did. Grip your battery cable ends at the battery posts. If you can forcefully move them at all you will need to add a washer/spacer to the bolts. It was found that they bottom out just as they tighten up, this made it seem tight but was causing the start problem you are having. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Great tip Vern... thanks! | ||
| Towpro |
Don't the low beam switch off when you hit crank anyway? "load shedding relay". But high beam will stay on during crank I think. | ||
| Contender |
Thanks all. I will check this tonight. And also look for a manual. Sigh. | ||
| Contender |
Ordered the manual. Did the error code check - I have 21 and 36. 21 is for exhaust, and since my bike has a jardine I am not worried about that at the moment. 36 is the fan. Since it doesn't even start right now I am not worried about that either. This is wildly frustrating. The manual doesn't tell me how to do a diagnostic check on the VR aside from ensuring the connection to the stator is tight. Is my only option to buy a new one and hope that is the issue? Unreal. To think I got this over a 1st-gen Multistrada because I thought I was avoiding a finicky bike is a bummer. I do love it when it is working, though. | ||
| Xbimmer |
I vote grounds also. Lift out the fuse box and remove the two screws holding the negative battery cable (rear) and the ganged harness grounds (front) to the rear subframe. Grind the paint off the frame at those points and clean off the terminals, I replaced the (1/4x20?) screws with hardened bolts with standard hex heads. I also put in a jumper wire from front to back, not really necessary probably. My bike immediately ran better after I did that. Check that the ground cable under the airbox (at the tiebar) is also clean at the ends and tight. | ||
| Contender |
Thanks xbimmer. I will try that now, as I was juuuuust about to order a VR. | ||
| Contender |
No dice. Argh. Cleaned/tightened grounds and still got only a single click from the relay when I thumbed the starter. Speaking of, what are signs of a bad relay? | ||
| Contender |
And again, thanks for all help. Much appreciated. | ||
| Arry |
You say you "swapped batteries", does that mean you put a new battery in, or another spare that you had. Both could be bad. You could have one or both load tested at any cycle shop. | ||
| Etennuly |
Make sure your battery is at or above 12.5 V. With a voltmeter hooked to the battery you should see a voltage spike drop to about 9.0V when hitting the starter. If it drops lower it could be a weak battery or cable. Look at the "76" connector under the front drive belt cover on the right side. Unplug it looking for any signs of melting or bluing of the connector pins and housing. | ||
| Contender |
Arry - I have a couple bikes. I took the battery out of the Uly and put in the one from my problem-free Suzuki. I have been riding that bike daily. Etennuly - I will find my voltmeter and give it a try. I assumed since the battery out of my Suzuki produced the same effect I needn't bother testing the batteries. The connector looked brand new. Thanks for the input to you both. | ||
| Dio |
Have you tried turning the handlebars from lock to lock while you hold the starter button. If it starts while moving the handlebars, it would indicate a problem in the main wiring harness where it flexes by the steering head. Just something to try. Another easy check of the neutral switch circuit is to hold the clutch lever in while you push the start button. If it starts then a problem with the neutral safety switch on the transmission is indicated. 2 easy tests with no tools required. Hope this helps. | ||
| Griffmeister |
Yes, find your voltmeter. Then do the checks that everyone suggests but include the meter. By the way, you can check the VR. With the engine running you should have around 13.5 to 14.5 volts at the battery. Lot of good that does now, huh? Back to basics, if something electrical doesn't work either the battery is dead or there is a loss somewhere between the battery, the nonworking component, and ground. Put that meter to work and remember, the meter requires very little current to read voltage. If you can add a load that will help if you have something like a wire that is broken down to one last strand, enough to complete a circuit but not do any work. Good luck. | ||
| Ironhead1977 |
The electrical manual for the 08 and up bikes is separate.I have one for sale if you are interested. | ||
| Uly_man |
Contender. I had something of the same thing with my 06 X. First thing is not to confuse the issue as it could be many things. Use logic and work through from the basics. One. The manual that comes with the bike and the Buell or other diagnostic system is close to rubbish with this sort of problem. Its part of the reason the Buell Techs can not fix these issues. You can get the Buell workshop manual but you need to be able to work with it. I have a wiring diagram for the bike but it will be of no help to you. Two. If the battery is ok it should, even if the bike does not start, turn the engine over. They can turn over lazy and its normal on the early bikes. Three. This sounds like a Earth problem and/or damaged cable and what can happen in this situation. Now we start. If not done do this. Follow the battery Earth/Negative (black) lead back to the point that it is bolted to on the subframe. Remove the bolt, clean any paint off the subframe bolt mount face and refit the bolt. This is a common issue on the early bikes, known/reported in the Buell tech list but is still not known by many of them. If you still have the same problem do this. Get 2m of cable, strip each end, put one end on the battery Earth/Negative and then with the ignition on touch on/off the other end on clean metal of the engine, main frame and forks. If you get a very small spark then you still have a Earth problem. You will need to find/fix this before doing anything else with the bike. As said Earth problems cause big problems with this bike but it is not an uncommon issue with others either with fuel injection. Its - bad Earth = bad resistance from sensors = bad numbers to ECM = bad engine running. Also can = bad charging rate to the battery. You must have perfect Earths before you start on anything else otherwise you will end up in a world of pain. Worry not though. Your problems can be fixed it just may take a little time. | ||
| Griffmeister |
Uly-man, that's a good down and dirty test if you're stuck somewhere with no tools. A meter will give you the same results and is a must have if you have to get into the sensor or charging circuits. Sensors typically work on 5vdc with outputs that vary by a few milliamps so you can't be hamhanded with them. But yes, in this case the battery should be proven to be in good condition and fully connected to the system. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Starter interlock ? Clutch interlock circuit runs around the steering head and some ulys had wiring harness stretched too tight and chafed or pulled apart | ||
| Garrcano |
There are two wires going from the positive terminal of the battery. IIRC ,one is red and thin, and sometimes breaks near the connector. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Uly-man, that's a good down and dirty test if you're stuck somewhere with no tools." Yes I was and here is the story. After two years of odd running problems with the 06 bike I had eliminated most things. By then I was getting what seemed to be no change in timing as the bike got hotter. If I then re-started the bike it would run as it should. Then it had the very weird electrical problems you can get with this bike like no dip beam but high beam but still not have the lamp on the dash type of thing. Anyway after a lot of thought and testing I got no place but remembered a post about Earths and did the wire test thing which seemed to prove the point. I did not know about the paint thing but did clean it off anyway. I managed to jump the bike with a big UPS battery and some 6mm cable and got home fine. After that the bike ran better than it ever had before and was like a new machine. Just dumb luck I guess because if the bike had not failed this way I would have not found the problem. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I was taught electronics by the Navy, starting in 1976 and ending in 1978. Somewhere back then a wise old man said "If a circuit behaves totally weird, look at the grounds." Absolute truth. Z | ||
| Contender |
Thanks Uly-man. I cleaned the ground connections, so I don't think that is the problem. I am traveling for work right now, so I haven't yet dug into this with my voltmeter... | ||
| Simplesimon |
Had a similar issue. Battery was low. A trickle charger is insufficient to increase the charge on the battery if it has dropped to a specific level. Put it on a rapid charger overnight and give it a go. My battery was so low the dash started acting up and skipping spark. I used the manual to validate stator, VR, etc. In the end, the battery was just old and tired. I recently ordered a higher CCA Lithium Ion battery (Ballistic, Shorai, etc). | ||
| Contender |
Sigh. The voltmeter shows no drop in volts when I hit the starter button, but the battery is showing 16.5 volts. So I guess that is OK. I hear one click from the fuse box, then nothing. That relay isn't prone to failure, is it? Also, turning the handlebars while trying to start does not do anything. Any more suggestions? Thanks all. | ||
| Luftkoph |
I would hook a test lamp up to the starter and see if you have power there, if no power try to get a probe on the relay to see if you have power. I guess you have not got your service manual yet but it has a pretty good section for the starter. | ||
| Contender |
Thanks Luftkoph. I got the manual, but forgot to delve into the starter. I need to get a test lamp. I replaced the VR tonight but that was not the problem. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
16.5V?? That seems really wrong right there. Of course, it would just turn the bike over really fast if true. A fully charged battery should be 12.5-13.25 volts. Your voltage reading seems really weird. |
