G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » Archive through March 31, 2012 » Mystery of uneven front tire wear solved. (or, "Yes, I'm a moron, why do you ask?") « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Skifastbadly
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 06:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I always find it funny when companies talk about getting "Lighthouse accounts" because they mean big first wins they can use as references but actually a lighthouse is something that signals "STAY AWAY!" In that regard, I'm happy to the Badweb lighthouse so the rest of you can learn not to do stupid things.

I was out riding yesterday, a beautiful spring day here in the Seattle area, and I was with a buddy who just bought a brand new Duc Monster. Nice bike, if a bit compact for my taste. He's on this naked bike and I'm on the Uly, I have a heated vest, heated grips, big ass windshield, and he's shivering like a chipmunk that had seven espressos. I'm feeling pretty good. Until....

I note that my front tire is wearing down, which shouldn't be any surprise since it has 8K on it, but then I notice that it's wearing asymmetrically. The left side is wearing far more than the right, and the center appears to be holding up more than the side. That's strange, one would expect the middle to wear more, since that gets the most contact, and also I'm not aware of turning left lots more than turning right, even if I CAN'T scrape my pegs. Well, nothing gets my attention faster than being 70 miles from home with a front tire showing weird wear.

I got home ok and as often is the case with stuff like this I ran the possible causes through my mind. Can't be tire pressure, last I checked that is symmetric. OH! OH! I know what it is.

Last summer I replaced my own fork seal (some of you may recall that clown act) and when I got it all back together, I had somehow missed a step, and I was unable to adjust the suspension properly. The bike *felt* ok so as far as I could, I set the other side the same and mostly forgot about it. I say 'mostly' because I always intended to pull the fork, take the top off, fix the adjustment and set it all back, but I figured since it's been like that since last July it was probably not urgent. But the tire wear suggested otherwise.

So this morning I go out to the garage with the usual unjustified optimism "I'll be in the garage for half an hour, honey." I remove the plastic bits on the right, take off the brake, remove the wheel, and start loosening the HEY WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?

Somehow, and this is why I don't use my real name on here, when I installed the fork last time I hadn't properly set the height. I don't know how the hell I could have missed it, there's a snap ring that snugs right up to the bottom of the triple tree, but it was below the bottom of the tree by about a quarter inch.

That's right, ladies and germs, for the past 9 months I've been riding an Uly with the right fork 1/4" lower (making the right side 1/4" higher than the left, AND with the suspension not sorted. Asymmetric tire wear? I'm lucky I didn't run off the road somewhere.

Cripes. So I pull the fork, take off the top, adjust the settings, put the fork back on at the right height, you know, why not, try something new, properly set the suspension for the first time in a year, throw on the almost new tire from my old 07 Uly and go for a short shake down ride.

And guess what?

The short shakedown ride turned into a three hour ride because the damned bike handles twice as good as it did yesterday.

So in other words, I'm such a crappy rider that I can't tell the difference between the way a bike should be set up and the way a moron sets it up.

So, as a public service, if you work on your own forks
1) Get the adjustment right before you put them together again, skipping that step causes problems and
2) Put 'em back in at the right height.


D'OH!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fltwistygirl
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 08:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Rut ro!

Thanks for that and glad ya sorted it out.

Always entertained by your posts, ski, glad u stayed in the BB and D fold despite the hiccups.

We (we...we? girlie ya got a turd in your pocket?) Most likely I'll be cheering him on and observing)) will be doing a couple fork jobs soon. Do appreciate the heads up.

(Message edited by fltwistygirl on March 25, 2012)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Buellerxt
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 08:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Like the old saying goes, Ski, "do it yourself and you'll know it's done right"! J/K, J/K, J/K

Hey, you're still my hero with those two belt changes; particularly that first one out on a ride by yourself and just diving in! Very cool. Glad you got the fork right and don't worry, most riders who 'think' they are all that and have the 'talk' down are most likely not as good as you are. Talk is cheap as another saying goes. Thanks for the post.

(Message edited by buellerxt on March 26, 2012)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ratbuell
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 10:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd look closely at your axle, and make sure it (and the threads and axle socket in your forks) aren't damaged or dinged at all. That's a long time for an axle to be sitting in there crooked...

Also take a good look at your brake pads, and caliper mount. Might want to check your rotor as well, to make sure it doesnt' have too much play in the mounting bolts. All that stuff is "fairly important", and has been mis-aligned for a long time.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevem123
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry to burst your bubble but unless your axle is bending, the tire is still planted on the road the same even with uneven fork loads. The reason your tire was wearing more on the left side than the right is because we ride on the right side of the road. Thus there are two actions causing the left side wear. The first is the crown of the road which is slightly higher on the left side towards the centerline of the road. Secondly is also due to our riding on the right side of the road and that is that when we turn left we cover more ground than we do turning right and the average causes more mileage turning left than turning right.
Every bike I have owned has more tread wear on the left front than the right front. Just works out that way.......
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Skifastbadly
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 02:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Rat: The brake pads seem fine, and I swapped out another wheel so no problem with the rotor. It went back in fine.

Steve: Understand your point, but I'm at 80K on bikes, 40K on Ulys, and this is the first time I've noticed asymmetric tire wear to this extent.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Eulysses
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 02:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I love your posts Ski...but my little brain is trying to figure out if the R fork was extended 1/4 lower than the left would not that push the wear to the R side of the tire? Like pushing down on the R side of the axle folds the tire under so wear is on R? Not messin' w/ya, promise. Just my little brain going off.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Someday
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 09:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I agree with Steve. A properly set up bike will wear the front left side more than the right for the reasons he described. I know this from 45 yrs of riding.
Let the arguments begin!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Etennuly
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If your front tire was a Scorpion Sync they had a casing that would do that left side wear thing. Many of us switched to the Sync when our Uly's were wearing out the first D616s.

The first couple of Syncs were great. Then there was a production change, inside the tire the rubber pattern was different. I had read that they had to open a new line to service all of the bike companies who were loving that tire.

With the new line of tire the casings were not as good as the originals. I found through two of my buddies tires and mine, that now on the front, the left side wore through the tread the same on all of our bikes. It never happened before. Also with the new line of sync, the rear casing on the last one I had, and one of a fellow Uly owners, had three spots that wore to the wear bars well before the rest of the tire. It was like three humps in the casing.

The first several Syncs that I had were great, the newer casings, not so good.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Skifastbadly
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Etennuly, this particular tire is a Scorpion Trail. Have you heard the same about those?

Anyway, the bike FEELS more sorted.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Etennuly
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No, sorry. My only experience in seeing this is on the later Syncs.

I could see it happening if they used the same casing. Does the inside of the tire mold pattern look like leopard skin design?

(Message edited by etennuly on March 26, 2012)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Skifastbadly
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here's an image, they say it's worth a thousand words so I'll quit typing


tire
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jphish
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 08:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Ski' - Thats pretty impressive! I'll bet the Uly DOES handle a bit better now. Missed you on the "Ski trip" Sunday - see what you missed ?!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tootal
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The way I see it is if a man can go fast on a lousy handling machine then he's one hell of a rider!! I mean hell, anybody can go fast on a well sorted machine!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Etennuly
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2012 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a couple of the old tires out back. I will see if I can get a picture up tomorrow.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Skifastbadly
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I love your posts Ski...but my little brain is trying to figure out if the R fork was extended 1/4 lower than the left would not that push the wear to the R side of the tire? Like pushing down on the R side of the axle folds the tire under so wear is on R? Not messin' w/ya, promise. Just my little brain going off.

Think of it this way. If the right fork is lower in the tree, it's in effect "longer" like if your right leg was longer. It would make you lean to the left, which would make your left show wear out faster because the center of gravity would be shifted. More to the point, it would make the left side of your left show take on more wear. Also, you'd walk around in circles.

(Message edited by skifastbadly on March 27, 2012)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

But the beefy axle clamped solidly within both forks holds the ends of the forks at the same effective length (relative to triple clamp), so that can't happen.

Road Racing World did a test years ago where they put a twice as stiff spring in one fork and all the damping in the other. Even on the track, there was negligible difference. The key is a good beefy/stiff axle.

The poor handling likely manifested an extra quarter inch of effective preload on the right side spring, thus throwing off your front end sag.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Skifastbadly
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Blake, that makes tremendous sense. Now we see why I'm a software marketing guy and not a motorcycle engineer.
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration