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Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 09:04 am: | 
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Al's comment correctly says that because of production size tolerances, Buell does it this way. (which will work perfectly).
What I said was that I intended to size my inner race at the next bearing change.
After reading Al's comment, I will not. What I will do is whip up a bearing press from a piece of all thread rod, a couple of custom made thick washers and 3 nuts.
I wonder if there is a machinist on BWB with some spare time? I'll bet lots of Buellers would like to have a pair of thick washers so they could whip up their own bearing press. |
Pkman
| | Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 09:50 am: |
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This thread makes me glad to know I had Al install my bearings when I bought the 2010 wheel from him! |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 10:05 am: |
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The bottom line is this:
1) The inner race and outer race of EACH bearing MUST be aligned with each other, with no forces pushing them out of that alignment.
2) When completely assembled, the first bearing inner race, spacer tube, and second bearing inner race should be in moderate compression
3) The brake rotor should be centered in the caliper slot, which will put the rear wheel in line with the front wheel.
The way Buell designed it does this, if the proper assembly method is observed. If the mechanic that did this work did a good job of VERY precisely measuring and machining the spacer, he also did this, and didn't cause any real problem. But you couldn't do what he did in a production environment.
The most important thing of all is how the bearings are pushed in. Whatever press anvil is used, it must be flat, and it must push simultaneously on both the inner and outer races, lest #1 above is compromised.
Al |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 11:53 am: |
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Thanks Al!
Dan in Oregon. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 12:41 pm: |
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I am of the same opinion as Als last post and is basic for bearings.
The Buell design is very precise and even slight wear on the front bearings (you can not feel it with the wheel off the ground) does upset the handling. I changed my orange OEMs at 13k and do not think that is bad. The seals were ok, no rust but the grease was dry. I do not wheelie the bike. The rears were done (HD) at 5k. I did them at 13k because I was changing the tire and they felt a little stiff. So I would not say I have had a serious problem. Some have though.
If the bearing rings are not in perfect alignment you will get fast wear. You get more friction, so more heat, affects the grease and so faster wear. If water gets in then it is even worse. QED.
It is quite right to not want to change them every 5k or so, for lots of reasons, but the main one is the possible hub damage/wear. Not easy or cheap to do and most of the time you will need a new wheel.
After reading many posts on this subject and my own experience.
1) The orange OEM wheel bearings may not be good enough quality for the bike. Which could be why they have been changed.
2) The wheel bearings size/grade should be suitable for the job. Not the loose version which some may have mistakenly used.
3) Once a spacer is over crushed it must be changed out. This is a two stage torque up job as per HD.
4) Bad fitting of new bearings, in the hub, is a known problem as is the removal of old ones. I have seen hub damage, seal damage, loose axles and lost pinch bolts.
5) New tires seem to cause problems as many tire workshops do not torque the axle up right.
6) The design, because of the spacer, for the removal of the bearings makes for a much harder job than it needs to be.
I think it is mostly about how people treat the bike and not its design. No "Rocket" stuff or "Black magic" is involved.
Oh and Panhead. What you have had is a classic "do not know a Buell XB" thing. Mind you HD can be no better sometimes.
(Message edited by uly_man on April 08, 2011) |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 01:26 pm: |
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""Oh and Panhead. What you have had is a classic "do not know a Buell XB" thing.""
I have to agree but I'm learning more every day. |
Uly_man
| | Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 01:36 pm: |
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Which is what I have had. Do not worry though it is not hard to fix and some of the bad talk about the bike is not true. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 12:53 am: |
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Dan,
From previous attempts at replicating a threaded rod press-in tool, I can tell you that the thickness of the washer isn't what's important. What IS important is that the threaded rod bushings for a press in tool must be long and closely toleranced to the threaded shaft. If not, it isn't possible to maintain parallelism between the bearings on opposite sides AND perpendicularity to the wheel bores.
Me, I have a big 20 ton press that accepts a full wheel. I align the arbors so that everything is nice and perpendicular, and carefully monitor the bearing at the start so that I know it is going in square. I USED TO put the bearings in the freezer ahead of putting them in the wheel, but now I do it at room temp, and VERY LIGHTLY coat the wheel bores with anti-sieze so that the bearings don't "step in" as they go. It works well. The problem with cooling the bearings is that once you take them out of the freezer, they condense water onto their outer surfaces, and that encourages "step in" instead of a smooth press.
AL |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 09:55 am: |
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Thanks Al. I still want to make a tool to do it with no presses or other expensive unobtainium. I'm going to have to go to school on this one.
Just brainstorming here but if instead of washers, I had a machine shop make a couple of cylindrically shaped pieces about 4" long with an OD very slightly smaller than the OD of the bearing outer race and an ID of a size that fit 1/2" all thread very closely to eliminate play.... |
Trevd
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 12:28 pm: |
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Well, what I've decided to do is put the bike back together, ride the snot out of it for a while, then jack up the bike in about 600 miles and check out how the bearings are rolling. Either that, or I'll get stuck on the side of the road somewhere with bearings that have taken a crap!
I'll report back when I check them out again in a few weeks. |
Andymnelson
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 07:08 pm: |
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Thinking about this a bunch lately, I have a new theory: they are all being over torqued 
Ok, maybe not. but the torque setting to the rear axle is only 20 ft/pounds...that is VERY little. I would be willing to bet that the average shop tech puts 40-50 ft/pounds on it without even thinking. Given the arrangement of the bearings (rotor side seated fully, axle tube sandwiched between rotor side bearing and pulley side bearing, pulley side only seated lightly to the axle tube), if the rear axle is over torqued much at all it would easily put crazy pressure on the pulley side bearing.
....might have something to do with why my bearings recently failed since I usually (used to) install my wheels without a torque wrench... |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 07:12 pm: |
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Ok, maybe not. but the torque setting to the rear axle is only 20 ft/pounds...that is VERY little.
I think you mis-read the book. You torque it to ~25 ft-lbs, then back off 2 full turns, then torque it to ~50 ft-lbs. |
Andymnelson
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 07:42 pm: |
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Doh! Indeed.
I suck.
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