| Author | Message | ||
     Marauder |
I have my 2010 rear wheel and starting the the replace process of the old wheel and tire. Is the axle a real tight fit on the 2010 wheel, which requires a hammer to drive it thru? And trying to spin the bearings is next to impossible, is this correct? | ||
| Ronmold |
Not right, axle should slide through smooth but with no play. sounds like a bearing is skewed in the hub. | ||
| Smokey3644 |
Something I learned many years ago wrenching my old POS cars in HS, if you have to use a hammer to make it fit somethings way wrong.  | ||
| Marauder |
Brand new wheel with new bearing pressed in by vendor. Can't get the axle thru with hands only. Have not hammered it yet as no tire mounted and motorcycle is not ready for it. Just doing a trial run before the main event. Completed the pinstripes to match the front wheel on my bike. Was going to use the axle to spin the wheel for the striping job. Looking down the barrel there is a collar/sleeve between the bearings and it is not centered. | ||
| Hughlysses |
DO NOT hammer- you will ruin the bearings and/or the axle. Reach in with your finger and try to move the sleeve. It's normal for the spacer to get out of position like that; it may be hung up off-center. If you can't move it with your finger, try a screwdriver or something similar to move it into alignment with the bearing openings. Don't get crazy trying to pry against the bearings or you'll damage something. If you can get it to move, keep playing with it until you can get the axle through the bearings and sleeve. If you can't move the sleeve at all, you'll have to have the disk side bearing removed (throw it away- removing it will damage the bearing!) and a new bearing installed more carefully with the spacer in the correct position. | ||
| Tootal |
Hugh has it right, it's the spacer. You should be able to pry it into position. I would use something rounded so you don't mar the bore of the spacer. A small hammer handle or broom stick etc. should do the trick. You're wise to "pre-fit" everything ahead of time. Drinking beer in celebration of a good job is better than drinking out of frustration!!  | ||
| Road_kill |
When I had my '10 wheel bearing failure, the axle seemed stuck in the wheel. As I began to loosen the axle, I noticed the swingarm was starting to spread apart. So, I tied the brake rotor to the left side of the swingarm and placed a small piece of wood between the right side of the pulley and the right side if the swingarm. Then I removed the stubborn axle using a 2' breaker bar. Rotor side bearing had clearly failed and pulley side bearings where "very tight". Post removal observations: 1) slightly crushed spacer between wheel bearings led to interference fit between axle and spacer (or bearings). 2) on the left (port) side of the swingarm, the axle bore within the swingarm is now very slightly smaller at the lip causing a slight interference fit to the axle. Using a small beam torque wrench, I found it took 5 ft-lbs to initiate rotation (false torque). I suspect the axle bore deformation, which is just at the lip of the bore, resulted from a) the left side spacer used in the '10 setup. It transfers the compressive load over a smaller area (there is a witness mark/ridge now on the face of the bore), and b) I must have over-torqued the bloody thing when I installed the wheel during a tire change. In any event, a stuck axle is the bikes' way of telling you it needs new parts. I suggest taking a good look at the bearings and spacer. After replacing mine after just 5000 miles, I was disappointed I had to do it but happy to get it right (knocking on wood sound). I should note the dealer who installed the new bearings and spacer broke two Buell bearing installation/removal tools in the process and ended up replacing the whole wheel as they suspected the old bearings (installed by them) were not perfectly true. Since there was no good way to tell after the bearing failure, they made good on the deal and ate most of the cost. Hope this helps | ||
| Buellerxt |
Wow, Road_Kill, I replaced my rear wheel that had smooth as silk bearings at 10,000 miles with the 2010 wheel for 'peace of mind'!  Now we are starting to hear about 'stuck' axles on the new wheel! Having put a hundred thousand miles on one Harley with zero wheel bearing problems and 50,000 on another with no wheel bearing problems, and having a friend with much higher mileage and no problems, I'm starting to wonder if Buell's wheel bearing 'elf' was worth his/her salt. My 2010 bearings were installed by a real Pro and the wheel was installed using the book torque values. Now I guess it is cross your fingers, hope for the best, and try to forget it. Not cool but . . . What happen's when we need a tire at a dealer far from home? Roll the dice and pray that the installation doesn't hurt the fragile spacer? Sad commentary on the bike. (Message edited by buellerxt on April 04, 2011) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Sad commentary on the bike. The bike is not the problem. You need to put anti-seize or just grease on the axle threads before screwing it in. | ||
| Andymnelson |
I agree. I say it's a sad commentary on the education level/common sense of the average mechanic. I changed my tires on my Buell long before I had a service manual, and when I looked at the axle it was only logical for me to smother the axle in grease before installing it. Not rocket science. | ||
| Nobuell |
I have a 2010 wheel on my XT after the original self destructed last spring. I have had the wheel off a few times since the original installation. So far, the axle slides out smoothly. I inspected the new wheel after the dealer installed bearings. The spacer was properly positioned and could just move move between the bearing races indicating the bearings were not over compressed at install. The axle was generously coated with antiseez and installed with the factory torque specs. So far so good. | ||
| Road_kill |
For the record, I always clean the parts, then use anti-sieze on the axle, swingarm bores, threads, etc. when changing tires. I follow the service manual and use a calibrated torque wrench. I've done the vast majority of maintenance on all my bikes for decades and have NEVER had this kind of trouble. However, I can make mistakes - and this time I may have made one. Alternatively, the dealer may not have had the bearings installed true. Either way, I wound up aborting a 3-day, 1500 mile trip and replacing parts. I believe the '10 wheel is marvelously over-designed. While my favorite will always be tapered Timken bearings with steel spacers, I am confident in the '10 wheel design. I simply suggest to others to keep an eye on those seals for signs of distress. And when you have the wheel off, make sure the bearings turn silky smooth and the spacer is straight. Just my $0.02 | ||
| Buellerxt |
My tech is a good one and I'm very comfortable with his work. It's the 'behind closed doors' guys I'd have to deal with if I need a tire on the road I'm concerned with. I'll definitely have the service manual with me though. Are the spacers on these wheels any different than on a Harley wheel? I had never heard about 'spacer' problems before my Uly. My tech doesn't like anti-seize at all. He uses White Lithium Grease and lathers it on good. I've never had a wheel issue in over 15 years so I go with his experience. | ||
| Motorbike |
Concerning the soft aluminum spacer which seems easily crushed, couldn't a good machine shop make a replacement part out of stainless steel? All the machine shop really needs to know is the diameter, wall thickness and exact length of the factory part, or am I over simplifying this? I, for one, would be willing to buy a stronger spacer, if one were made available. It would be nice to have on hand if I ever need to replace my bearings. | ||
| Hughlysses |
If you have a pre-2010 rear wheel, this post has dimensional info on the spacer as well as details on the history of the bearings and information on installing them properly: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=142838&post=1505281#POST1505281 At least a couple of Badwebbers have had steel spacers made up. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Just out of curiosity, why do you think Buell didn't go with a steel spacer? The weight difference would be tiny. | ||
| Froggy |
It is 100% unsprung weight. Part of the whole Buell trilogy of tech is incredibly low unsprung weight. I'm pretty sure the extra bearing and seals on the 2010 wheel were a step backwards with weight but a necessary tradeoff. I don't want no stinking heavy steel spacer in the worst possible spot. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Quote: I don't want no stinking heavy steel spacer in the worst possible spot. Unquote Hey, I don't want no stinkin' HEAVY steel spacer either, Froggy! I like that. It's a positive, Man. Buell did their part and now it's up to me to ensure a little TLC is given. Cool. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"You need to put anti-seize or just grease on the axle threads before screwing it in." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the threads should have anti-sieze on them. IIRC, the manual specifically says to leave the threads dry and it also includes a torque spec for the axle. Therefore (again - if I understand all of this correctly) if you apply anti-sieze to the threads, the rotational torque you measure when tightening the axle is applying more tensile pressure on the threads than was intended. I was always taught: dry threads = 100% manual recommended torque oil on threads = 80% manual recommended torque anti-sieze on threads = 60% manual recommended torque That is of course assuming that the manual recommends installing the threads dry. If it specifies that they should be installed with oil or anti-sieze, the recommended torque values have already taken that into consideration. I've always installed my axles with a good sloppy coating of anti-sieze everywhere except for the threads. Used wheel bearing grease once, but that was an emergency road-side repair with no other options. I cleaned the grease off and re-installed the axle with the proper anti-sieze as soon as possible. (Message edited by pkforbes87 on April 05, 2011) | ||
| Motorbike |
I realize that the steel spacer would weigh a little more than the aluminum but the difference would be so small that no one, even a professional racer, could tell the difference in handling. Also, as Froggy stated, the 2010 setup is heavier but a necessary tradeoff. I'll bet the 2010 setup with the larger bearings, extra bearing, larger axle and added dust seals weighs considerably more than the difference in weight between a steel and an aluminum spacer. Just my $.02, thanks. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
A steel space would not hurt in the least. Now, put that weight difference out where the tire is and it would mean something just like a wheel weight does. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Come on guys, I was just starting to see that 'light' spacer as a GOOD thing!  Since I have the 'light' one installed I'll continue to see it as a positive. I won't admit to anyone that I wish I had a HEAVIER steel one! | ||
| Smokey3644 |
So anyone have an answer on the never seize on the axle threads? I seem to remember it on the threads when I changed my rear tire for the first time. | ||
| Husky |
Smokey3644 The 08 Shop Manual says to coat the Axle threads and boss where it mounts on the swing arm or forks with anti-seize. Husky | ||
| Smokey3644 |
Thanks Husky, that's what I though but don't have the shop manual handy. Funny thing, when I replaced my front tire the front axle was clean as a whistle, someone forgot the anti seize at the factory. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The 2010 axle has a hard black finish on it, so it should be much less susceptible to corrosion than the earlier axles. I've found that too much anti-seize can be almost as bad as none. The grease in it has a tendency to dry out leaving dry metal particles. A light application works best. | ||
| Tootal |
Hmmm, I'm thinking TITANIUM SPACERS!! I wonder if the new E B R's have them? |
