| Author | Message | ||
     Scooter808484 |
Yeah, difficult to move much farther without going to AK or HI. We lived out here once before and liked it so when a good job opened up, out we went!! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Craig- thanks for the info on the available Buells. I checked the dealers in the states adjacent to me (there are no Buells left at the dealers in SC). Tilleys in Statesville, NC (former Badweb sponsor) has two new 2007 XB12STT's still in stock and 3 or 4 used XB12X's. I'm sure I'll be able to find one if it comes to that. I do wish I could build the first XBRRX though...  | ||
| Reepicheep |
radioiglasieas (forgive my spelling) had a beautiful STT for sale here in the cincy area. You can crash at my place if you want to do a fly and ride, I'll kick one of the kids out to the basement... | ||
| Skifastbadly |
When my 07 puked, I was told by the HD shop rats that it looked like I had been running it with no oil. My oil light never went on. I wonder if there's an issue with oil pressure w/ the engine at or around 30K. Good luck, I bought an 08 with 8200 miles for 5800. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Any thoughts on the oils used having an impact? Hugh, I notice you use Mobil 20/50 auto oil, I believe. My oil of choice in the Uly as well, though I'm considering going back to a non-synthetic. Skifast, I see you run a synthetic as well. Is that what you ran in the bike that imploded? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Mike, I can't imagine the oil played a factor, but if it did, I'd sure dump it in Mobil's lap. I ran HD 20W-50 from new to ~5500 miles; I changed it at 100 miles, 1000 miles, 2500 miles, and 5000 miles. At ~5500, I changed to Mobil-1 V-Twin 20W-50 motorcycle-specific synthetic. Since then, I've changed it at between 2500 and 4000 mile intervals. I've always used the factory oil filters. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
It was probably congenital. A bad internal part that only last 1/10 as long as it should have. Maybe you should drop it in Erik's lap at Erik Buell Racing. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Bueller, I ran nothing but the factory recommended Screaming Eagle Synthetic | ||
| Hughlysses |
I know, it's bearing skate! For those of you that have never heard of it, this is a mythical failure that certain HD techs used to warn about as one of the dire consequences of using synthetic oil in an HD-built engine. Somehow, synthetic was supposed to be "too slippery" which would prevent the rollers in the connecting rod roller bearing from rolling on the crankshaft journal. This would result in flat spots being worn in the rollers as they "skated" around the journal. Of course, at the time this myth was being spread, Syn3 did not exist; HD only sold conventional oil. Once Syn3 came out, the warnings about "bearing skate" disappeared. I never did figure out how oil could be slippery enough to allow something to slide without turning, but NOT slippery enough to prevent metal-to-metal contact between the sliding rollers and the crankshaft journal. | ||
| Tootal |
I remember that crap too Hugh. I asked the dealer why there was enough friction to wear flat spots on the balls but not enough for them just to roll? Well, that's what Harley told me! Use your brain DUDE! I went home and put synthetic in! That old Harley oil was just Sunoco automotive oil anyway, nothing special. Consumer News magazine did an oil test many years ago and the Harley dino juice was crap. In a ball bearing motor you don't need much though! I suspect you had a bad part, not anything oil related. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I spent some time tonight and worked up a spreadsheet and added up the prices for the parts (using prices from Chicago HD's website) for a couple of possible repair scenarios. I'm assuming the filter caught all the debris (which appears reasonable at this point) and therefore the other bearings are OK. I'm assuming the oil pump is severely worn from the un-filtered debris it pumped, and I included the price for all new hoses. Here's what I came up with: 1- Stuck exhaust valve, bent pushrod, destroyed lifter & cam (replace valve, guide, cams & lifters, & oil pump)- $1000 2- Destroyed crankshaft journal (install new crank, replace oil pump)- $1250 Either of these would require some outside help (installing valve and guide or fitting pistons to new crank assembly). Figure maybe $1200 for the "minimal" and $1500 for the crank job. OTOH, I can buy a used engine for $1500-$2000, and my engine has lots of good parts I could sell to recover some of my cost (heads, cylinders, cases, etc.). At any rate, I'm gonna proceed with the teardown and see what I find. | ||
| Kenm123t |
CAll up Pammy and talk to her and Wes First This what they do every day you might as well up your hp while your in there too | ||
| Tootal |
Wow, an engineer makes a spread sheet!! I never would have thunk it!!  Sorry Hugh, I couldn't help it, I work with too many engineers! Seriously I'm looking forward to your discoveries! Even if it pains you... | ||
| Uly_man |
Hugh. From what you have said it is clear that you have steel "dust" running around your engine. Whatever the cause this "dust" will have added extra wear to other parts of the engine and even with a very good flush some may still remain with a engine re-build. So maybe not a good idea. Options in my opinion. Sell the bike or buy a brand new engine. The other thing, but does not help any, is that these engines were never designed for full synth oil and do not need it anyway. Best of luck Sir. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Hugh. From what you have said it is clear that you have steel "dust" running around your engine. Whatever the cause this "dust" will have added extra wear to other parts of the engine and even with a very good flush some may still remain with a engine re-build. So maybe not a good idea. Marc- that's definitely something for me to think about. The only reason I'm even considering fixing it is because the filter may have caught all the damaging stuff. So far there's no sign of significant debris on the downstream side of the oil filter. I'll have to look further and be confident it's worth doing before I start down that path. I can't see spending $4500 on a new engine when I can buy a nice running 06 or 07 X for ~$4500. Buying a used engine for ~$1500-2000 would be a gamble as I might end up with a bomb, but that may be the cheapest way to get mine back on the road. | ||
| Uly_man |
Hugh. It sounds like you know what you are on about. I wish you the very best of luck. | ||
| Tootal |
Hugh, the pictures of the lifters above are from my friends engine. I cut his filter open and found what you did. I changed the cam and lifters and put it back together. That was at 72,000 miles and he hit 123,000 miles on our last trip. He has an oil gauge and his pressure is great and it runs like a top. My neighbor's bike did the same thing and we took his oil pump apart and it was fine. He's been riding since with no problems. I wouldn't be too concerned about it. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Gregory- thanks for that info. Glad to know there's at least a possibility that a bad lifter could produce that kind of debris. If I can get the time, I'll rotate the engine this weekend and start disassembly. Cams, lifters, and gaskets would only cost about $300-400. That wouldn't be too bad. | ||
| Hughlysses |
OK- the process has started.  I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the engine rotation went. After this photo, I pulled the header and shined a light in both exhaust ports. Everything there looks OK- no dropped/bent valves anyway. I took the engine oil and poured it through a piece of cheesecloth until I got near the bottom of the container, then I poured the last bit through a blue shop towel (it took a LONG time to drain through). I found no big pieces; the metal content is VERY fine. You can pick the oil containing a lot of filings in it and rub it between your fingers and not feel it. The stuff that came out of the filter was coarser (you can feel it) but it's sort of "flaky" looking. It's not as coarse as salt would feel for instance. I confirmed that the inside of the filter is as clean as a whistle, so the filter caught everything before it got to the bearings. It'll be Sunday afternoon before I can start disassembly. Next step- pull the rocker boxes and pushrods, the remove right side cover and HOPE I find at least one bad lifter. (Message edited by Hughlysses on March 04, 2011) | ||
| New12r |
Hugh, I have had frames off in an hour. Good luck finding the culprit. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Hugh, Thanks for taking the time for pics and the write up...this thread'll be a keeper. Good Luck! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I got my fingers crossed for you, man! | ||
| Tootal |
What a sad picture, but a mans got to do what a mans got to do! I too have my fingers crossed. Here's to hoping it's something easy and cheap!  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good luck Hugh! It's up to us to keep these things on the road forever now. We need to be good stewards of these bikes... Buell is the next Vincent. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Yea, no kidding. I've talked this whole deal over with my wife a few times, and she kind of set my head straight about one thing: there's no way I'm parting this bike out. Like she said "Hugh, you love that bike. You'll be sick if you do that." It may take a lifter and a set of cams, or it may take junking this engine and buying another, or something in between, but this bike WILL run again.  | ||
| Buellerxt |
Good man, Hugh. I like the attitude. Best of luck. I bet it will be something 'smaller' than currently envisioned. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
http://www.ridesafely.us/auto/online-salvage-aucti on/BUELL | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
http://www.carfrom.us/car/search/action/search/?ca rmake=BUELL_XB12X%20ULYSSES | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
http://www.carfrom.us/car/search/action/search/?ca rmake=BUELL_XB12X%20ULYSSES http://www.carfrom.us/_COLLISION_2006_BUELL_XB12XU LYSSES_49ST_34072768 | ||
| Hughlysses |
The disassembly has started: Rocker box covers removed, photo of rear rocker box still installed:  Closeup of exhaust valve area in rear rocker box:  There are some signs of oil coking, but nothing excessive. The valve seal looks good. Front cylinder head after removal of rocker box:  Closeup of rear fuel injector tip:  Closeup of front fuel injector tip:  Pushrods, all straight:  First finding of interest- 1 highly coked up rear intake port and rear portion of intake valve:  This isn't the best photo (I'm using my Blackberry), but this stuff is really crusty and at least 1/8" thick in places. The front intake looks clean, and both exhaust valves look reasonably clean. It'll be interesting to see if this nasty rear intake has anything to do with what else I find. The only possible cause I can think of for this is my taped off rear frame openings above the rear cylinder head. Maybe this results in the intake area of the rear head running hot before the fan kicks on? At a minimum, this port and valve need to be cleaned up before the engine goes back together. That was enough work for Sunday afternoon. Next step- pull both cylinder heads, then pushrod covers, then lifters, then the cam gear cover comes off and the cams come out. |
