| Author | Message | ||
     Rollingwet |
Hey all! Thanks for all the great feedback on the MPG issue. Here's the new one. Pull up a chair and pour a cuppa joe, I've got a little story... Monday night the temperature was heading south towards 20 degrees f. I started and warmed up my bike and put a blanket over it to weather out the weather... The next day, it was a brisk 18 degrees and I left it alone, not wanting to fight viscosity issues and sure that the battery and associated hardware could bear one day of cold abuse. On Wednesday, I went out to start it up and ended up draining the battery. That night it went down into the 20's again. Now it's Thanksgiving and I am walking to my buddie's house to grab his 6 amp/2 amp charger... I leave the battery on the charger until it is at 100%, go out to crank it up, get a couple of promising sputters, then nothing. Bring the battery back in and it is at 0%. Time for a new battery, right? Off to the local HD dealer and $100 dollars later, new battery goes on the charger. It is now up to 100%, install and crank with high hopes, nothing. Re-charge battery, retry. Fuel pump whine, battery meter flashes, settles in the green, crank and crank. Nothing. By the way, 35 degrees all Thanksgiving and 45 degrees today. Tricks? Inspected all connections, engine (what I could see without removing stuff) and found what looks to be a melted spot in the transmission breather hose. Help! Bought the bike used (as is) have had it over a month, LOVE IT and have no money to turn it over to the dealership to discover what I hope is a minor fix... | ||
| Dennis_c |
You must have a slow orange Uly that don,t like you. Change your spark plugs sounds like you gave it gas while trying to start it. | ||
| Ratbuell |
+1 on check the plugs. ESPECIALLY since you say you started it, warmed it up, turned it off and covered it. NEVER DO THAT. If you're going to start the engine on a Buell, ride it for at least half an hour. If you don't do that, the ECM never goes into closed-loop mode, it runs rich the whole time its running, and buildup from that can foul the plugs. You're better off to just let it sit. NEVER twist the throttle when starting. Once the weather is consistently cold, I'll give my idle set screw (I have an '06) a little tweak to get the idle speed up a couple hundred RPM. Nothing to make the idle "race" once the bike is warmed up, but enough that the coldstarts go a little easier. It's snow-flurrying right now, I haven't adjusted the idle yet for the season, and I could go in the garage, turn the key and hit the button on my slow orange uly - with the OEM battery from '06 still in it - and it will fire right up. No touching the throttle grip, and the bike knows that once it starts, it gets to go out and play! And I had a thought - you do wait for the light to go out before you try and start it, right? (Message edited by ratbuell on November 27, 2010) | ||
| Ourdee |
Hey, I wanted to say spark plugs. Get a new pair. | ||
| Hughlysses |
+2 on replacing the spark plugs. NEVER twist the throttle when starting. I agree with 99.97% of what Ratbuell posted, but IMHO it's OK to give the bike a LITTLE throttle to keep it running when starting it when it's cold outside. Just enough to keep the RPM's up like he said, and after it's run for a minute or so (enough to warm the engine a little) let go of the throttle and it should idle fine. THEN go ride it, DON'T shut it off. | ||
| Tootal |
+2 on barely cracking the throttle. It's the same thing Ratbuell is doing, he's just using the idle screw to do it. When it's just in the 40's I have to crack the throttle a hair to get it to start. Only a hair though or you will get a shotgun blast out of the muffler! DAMHIK! | ||
| Rollingwet |
Good. After a sleepless night (what can I say, I get into a "closed loop" myself). I woke up determined to go to the HD dealership and purchase new plugs. So, any feedback on plugs? I am looking for that balance between great performance and durability as I ride everyday. What works best for you? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Been running stock 10R12 plugs for nearly 20k miles, no issues. 10R12X are stock plugs for DDFI-III bikes, '08-up. Spark plugs are one of those things where I just don't feel the need to reinvent the wheel, just so I can say I did. | ||
| Rollingwet |
Ratbuell, all this makes me wonder how many people you have helped and taught over the years. I look forward to learning about all the things that make owning this bike interesting and fun. Thank you very much for your help. And I hear the "never do that"... Feel free to be direct with me, I spent my youth in the service. | ||
| Etennuly |
He didn't mention how long to warm it up. A lot of us have discovered it is best to crank it up when the temps are below 40F or so, letting it idle long enough to get your gear on. It seems to work out pretty well, the colder it is the more gear goes on, so it takes a little longer, so, the bike gets a little more warm up time. Even with a new fully charged battery these things can crank hard. Sometimes I have to hit the button more than once to get it over that first compression hump. Have you checked the service manual on what oil to run for the colder temps? It is a good idea to follow the charts.....but many will throw the book out for their favorite brand of oil. And for sure.....never start it unless you are ready to do at least a five mile ride. | ||
| Rollingwet |
Funny how things are. I naturally found the "Start it and put the gear on" rhythm. Works well. Yeah, I hear ya on the service manual thing. I feel like a geek sometimes for always baselining to the suggested lines, but it makes me more comfortable in the end. That said, HD oil, temperature appropriate viscosity. A little OT, but is there a smooth trick for replacing the transmission breather line? My header melted a hole in mine and I can see evidence on the oil dipstick... | ||
| Ratbuell |
Transmission breather line shouldn't affect engine oil dipstick at all. Different set of oil. And I run Syn3, year round, in all the Buells here. Glad to help!  And Vern is right, I forgot to mention the warmup routine. Sorry! | ||
| Tootal |
Rollingwet, if you're having some dipstick problems try checking the oil when it's hot and the engine running. This seems to give the most accurate and consistent reading. It's usually at the second X from the bottom. The best thing to do is do an oil change. Put exactly 2.5 quarts in and go take a 20 minute ride. Leave the bike running and check the oil. That is where your bike should be. | ||
| Ourdee |
If it is staying cold out, 10w40. On the 08 XB12XT, the way to keep the throttle opened a little on cold start-up is to put the Erik Buell Racing ECM in it. Works like a charm. | ||
| Timberwolf |
Check while running? I thought the procedure was to check while hot, on sidestand, 3-5 min. after shutdown? | ||
| Sperz1 |
I've NEVER checked the oil while running on any bike (or car) that I've ever owned. | ||
| Dio |
I thought that the 10R12X was the superceded number plug that went on the '06 & '07, and replaced the 10R12. Is this incorrect? What is the actual difference between the 2? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Check while running? I thought the procedure was to check while hot, on sidestand, 3-5 min. after shutdown? LOTS of people have had problems getting consistent oil readings on the 08-up XB's with the new oiling system following the factory recommended oil check procedure. At least several Badwebbers found that they got consistent, accurate readings by checking the oil level with the bike hot and running and on the side stand. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I thought that the 10R12X was the superceded number plug that went on the '06 & '07, and replaced the 10R12. Is this incorrect? What is the actual difference between the 2? That is incorrect. The X plug is ONLY for 08-up. I had the tech bulletin around somewhere.... Difference is heat range. The X doesn't work well in a DDFI-II bike because of it. | ||
| Dio |
How hard would it be to find and post that tech bulletin? | ||
| Hooper |
Just changed my original OEM battery on my May '06 Uly (fast and black) after 16,500 miles. It started to conk out on me on a cold dark ride to my Thanksgiving destination and wouldn't hold a charge anymore. It starts like a champ now...and to think I put up with the hesitant-starter issue for the last couple years. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
That's probably because dry-sump systems are not common. With an oil tank separate from the engine, the oil level should be constant and steady while the engine is running. The tricky thing about dry sump systems is that some oil can drain back toward the crankcase when the engine is shut off. Oh yeah, the no-start condition. Put in another recommendation for spark plugs. Did that once the first week that I had the bike. Learned the proper starting procedure right then and there. Mark SE AZ (Message edited by Mark_Weiss on November 28, 2010) | ||
| Ratbuell |
I checked my TB library, and the most recent I have left for some reason is the one for the updated TPS on the '06. Half my library went "poof"...grr... Until someone finds it, you're just gonna have to take my word for it. I own an '06 and worked at a dealer for six years. I was going to do the swap to the X plug until I found the TB and realized they are not a recommended plug for DDFI-II. I'm not here to steer anyone wrong, and anyone here will tell you...I'm usually pretty darned accurate  And...if you look on page 49 of the '09 accessories catalog, you'll see: "32335-04 10R12A OE Spark Plug - fits all Buell (except '08-later XB and 1125R) models 27794-08 10R12X Fits '08-later XB models" | ||
| Jphish |
So how many seconds of cranking before Batt is dead ? A new batt should have plenty of juice to do the job - unless you have some underlying electrical problem. OR... plugs are fouled. As already suggested - new plus first - then see if your 'fortune' changes for the better. Also, while you have plugs out, check to be sure coils are fireing by grounding & 'spark check' proceedure. You might also consider irridium plugs - 25K and still going strong - no fouling. On cold start up the "no touchy the throttle" is a good rule. My 08 idles high enough in cold conditions to not stall. I don't ride it until RPMs reduced to normal idle. The Uly IS seriously cold blooded in these northern latitudes. | ||
| Rollingwet |
Wow. I am so glad I found this forum. Buying the new battery may have been overkill, but I don't think so. The plugs were the issue. Which brought up another issue. It seems to be running obscenely rich. Deal with that later. All this said, my bike now runs like it has never run before! New sound, new pull, new FUN! I am sure that I am going to go through the next motorcycle I buy and replace all of the maintenance oriented parts I can. Between the oil change, new battery and plugs, I can see and feel the difference. Any word on that breather hose trick? It's tucked pretty neatly down into the engine. I can get to it if I remove the guard near the right foot-peg, but if you all have suffered through this before, let me know... Once again, thank you for all the info. | ||
| Ourdee |
Just for the record: I have read what is in my opinion to be a lot of threads here. That said, I will vouch for the incredible accuracy of Ratbuell's posts. He is an enthusiast that keeps his ego out of his posts. I wish he was my next door neighbor. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The running obscenely rich part can be handled by one thing, and one thing only: LONGER RIDES. DDFI runs rich when it's cold. It "over"compensates - think too much choke, if you will. If you don't warm it up, it never goes into closed loop mode and never "leans out" for normal operating temp. If you can, try not to even start the bike unless you can ride it - HARD (at least that's the way mine likes it!) - for at least 30 minutes. If your trip is less than that, either take the long way...or take the car. It will routinely take me 35 minutes to make the (literally) 3/4 mile commute to work. I go the long way Also, if you have one at your disposal or can get one, get an ECMSpy cable, get the program, and do a TPS reset and AFV reset. Then, take the bike out for a long highway ride, steady-state cruise, so the computer "re-learns". If its learned any bad habits in the past, this should help cure them. You can also check trouble codes and sensor readings with the program, should the need arise. Thanks for the compliment, Ourdee...but you really don't. I shoot bows and guns in the yard, I have a 1200 watt stereo in my garage (and that's the LITTLE one), none of my turbocars have mufflers on their 2.5" exhausts but at 18psi+ boost levels, they do a helluva burnout, and when I get too much debris around (cardboard, deadfalls, pallets, etc) I just have a bonfire. And it's not a bonfire unless you can see it from space. My volunteer firefighter neighbors just LOVE me! | ||
| Jphish |
Ratbuell - well...the arrows are at least pretty quiet. All the noise would be worth the trade off - even with the loud stuff. What kind of guns...?? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Nothing special, at least not market-wise. Got rid of everything but dad's old revolver. '50 Colt 4" OP .38 revolver, purchased by his FBI brother, given to him the night before he shipped out for Korea. On a train. In Buffalo. Those were the days, eh? LOL It did multiple tours over there with him (Cmdr-USN, Ret), still 95% blue, no nicks, matching numbers, handcarved ivory grip with his RCG monogram, and knife-sharp rifling inside. It's nothing special...but to me, it means the world. I may re-grow my collection...I may not. This one, though, stays with me forever.  (Message edited by ratbuell on November 30, 2010) |
