| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
No flaming, but I disagree. I put 30,000 miles on an XB9SX without a hint of pulsing, including a test documented on this site where I purposely overheated the brakes (to prove that I was wrong about something else  ). I put 1000 miles on the Uly and it was pulsing. I put on lyndall golds and the 6mm rotor, and did not change my riding habits, and the pulsing is gone. So I either disagree, or misunderstood your point. No flaming though! | ||
| Buelet |
 Operator Error? Disagree 100%. Not saying that it CAN'T be caused, either intentionally or otherwise BUT I have 5 Buells w/ said ZTL, ranging from a couple of 2003 Lightnings, to an '06 XB12X, '09 XB12XT, and an '08 1125R. I've personally put 45k miles on the lighting with ZERO issues. It still has the original pads both front & rear. My '06 Uly has 37k miles on it and started pulsing around 5k miles. (Serious pulse that would shake & jack hammer the bars if you let go of them under 40mph + it wore egg shaped bumps down the middle of the front tire, so the front end felt like rumble-strips when you slowed down, either with or without the front brake.) Rotor & pads were replaced under factory warranty. The pulsing returned around 12k miles or so. They were replaced again under the ESP. And so far it has been fine ever since. The '08 1125R only has around 7k miles on it and pulses moderately. It has done so since around 3k miles or so. The wife rides the other two bikes that have a combined mileage of around 40k miles and her brakes are fine. I ride all 3 of mine the exact same way & with the SAME habits, regardless of whether they're good or bad. I call BS on that theory and my experience is all the proof I need. Of course I had my own theory on all the new Uly owners ('08 and up) that came after me regarding the cry-baby, "My bike is too hot and is burning my little legs" issue... Until we got my wife’s '09 XT. MY Uly and other XB's have NEVER been hot. I figured they were a bunch of cry babies... I stand corrected on that now. My wife's XT is one HOT Sum'Bitch in the summer - even with the "Comfort Kit" and magical flash. She puts up with it, but I've ridden it and it'll burn the piss out of your leg exactly as advertised. And back to the pulsing rotor issue - I'd almost bet that for those of us who have gotten bad parts on our bikes that they'd start pulsing even if the front brake was never used. (Not completely serious, but only half joking.) Along the same line of thinking, I bet my wife is doing something funky to cause the Buell tank emblems to separate & slide off her tank too. Go ahead and let her know about that for me. (Same thing happening on my 1125) AND the replacement emblems are coming off her XT again after only less than 1k miles of riding in COOL weather... go figure. What could she be doing wrong? Just my $1.02 YMMV I’ve done extensive research on this and there are MANY theories to why brakes pulse, or whether or not it’s warpage, deposits, or metallurgy, and regardless of what they’re on… I think it’s great that people are looking for alternative cures for common issues instead of being closed minded and blaming it on the equipment, but for me – the only thing different is the quality of the parts used on my various bikes.  Can I get an AMEN! | ||
| Trevd |
Along the same line of thinking, I bet my wife is doing something funky to cause the Buell tank emblems to separate & slide off her tank too. Go ahead and let her know about that for me. (Same thing happening on my 1125) AND the replacement emblems are coming off her XT again after only less than 1k miles of riding in COOL weather... go figure. What could she be doing wrong? Using a tank bag? My left side one seems to move a lot more when I use a tank bag... | ||
| Trevd |
I wonder if the weight of the bike has anything to do with the pulsing? The stock Uly probably weighs more than the other ZTL equipped bikes, and probably normally carries more luggage than most of the others. I know mine usually has the bags on, with some weight in them. More weight = more effort to slow down = more heat. | ||
| Buelet |
Trevd - We considered that possibility with the tank bag after the problem with her emblems this summer during our 4,000 mile ride to the Grand Canyon & back. It was the only time her bike had seen a tank bag and it actually wasn't all that hot out during our trip. We got the emblem replaced after returning and the new ones have started sliding off again and the weather has been cool ever since, and no tank bag has been used again. (The base of the sticker stays put, but the top half slides off) My 1125R is starting to do the same thing as well and it's never had a bag on it. My guess is specs or suppliers, or materials. As far as the weight of the Uly... I think it's great that we looks for outside reasons, but I really don't think that's what the problem is here. The first year and a half of my '03 Lightning life was spent mostly 2-up with several multi-state trips... Nah - don't think so. | ||
| Ourdee |
My brakes pulsed for a while. Then I realized I was holding the bike at lights with the front brake. I quit doing that. Then used the front brake from 70 to 5 mph hard about 6 or 7 times. At 5 miles per hour I would ease up on the front brake while rolling finishing the stop with just the rear applied. It's magic; no more pulsing. I do plan on getting the racing rotor when funds allow. My Uly has heated grips and gets rode in cold wet weather often. I ride down to about 7 degrees f. if there is no precipitation. I always have stuff in the bags. I chirp the tire in second gear on a regular basis. I've lifted the front tire shifting into 5th gear. I lost a set of rear bearings with the bike loaded past the max and knocked a tooth off the belt. I've spun the rear tire at over 70 in the rain a few times. I do not use the engine as a brake. I use the rear brake to settle the bike sometimes and the front to the point of lifting the rear. Most corners are taken in second gear. I average 48 mpg on an 08 XB12XT. I don't cry about the heat and often wish it had more. I ride a Buell and it is the best bike I've ever owned. | ||
| Buelet |
I LOVE my Buells and don't plan on ever getting rid of ANY of them. I'm also a HUGE advocate of all things Buell and everyone that knows me, knows it. I’ve tried the other methods such as the repeated hard braking, and using Scotch-brite pads to clean the rotor of deposits, all to no avail. It apparently has worked for others, so it would seem that was the issue for some. The only thing that worked for me was replacing the offending parts with parts that weren't inherently flawed that required special riding & handling instructions in order to live harmoniously with. Hopefully the 6mm rotor turns out to be the silver bullet that kills this dilemma that some of us have faced! | ||
| Nvr2old |
'08 Uly, 11k miles and no pulsing. My son's '09 Ss, 5k miles and had to have rotor replaced under warranty. I do brake later/harder than my son, so maybe there's something to the theory of being too easy on the brakes as a possible cause. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Operator error? Maybe, but it was definitely not a brake dust build up on my mounting hardware. I took it all apart, cleaned the hell out of it, abrasive treated the stock rotor with garnet paper, and it still pulsed (though a bit less). Replaced with new rotor and pads (6mm and EBC, I did not like the Lyndal's). All is great a few thousand miles later. Measured the stock rotor at work, and it was quite "warped" (not flat). I forget the number (posted it previously) but IIRC it was around .024" out of flat. I'm not saying the 6mm is a cure, but my old rotor was a mess. I do like the idea of Erik Buell Racing mounting kit, with the belleville washers instead of springs. Seems to work well so far. You shouldn't have to adjust your lifelong riding style to the ZTL, as this can lead to you second guessing and not applying the brakes for all their worth when needed. This is what ultimately convinced me to replace rotor, mounting and pads all at once. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
All I can say is WOW. I am kicking myself for not doing this sooner. It is like night and day. I had gotten so used to the pulsing it is almost strange having such smooth front brake. With winter coming in fast I don't want to mess with having to clean anything outside with freezing cold numb fingers. Wow my rim is clean!!     | ||
| Ratbuell |
I wonder if the weight of the bike has anything to do with the pulsing? Exactly my thoughts, for the rotor AND for the wheelbearing "problem". The Ulysses is rated at nearly double the GVW of a regular XB...and it's so dirt-simple to OVERload a Ulysses, it only makes sense to me that the parts (brake rotors and wheelbearings) designed for a sub-400-lb-bike, when on a bike that is loaded to over twice that weight (factory GVWR for a Ulysses is 950), will have some durability issues. Not necessarily a design flaw...just a "mis-application" of a couple parts. The only "design flaw" is, when loaded to nearly 1000 lbs including rider and passenger, my Ulysses handles just fine and behaves just as well as it does when it's empty with a solo rider. If it showed some bad habits, I'd probably lighten the load...but since it does so damned well, I just keep piling crap in the bags! Damn engineers. How dare they? | ||
| Nvr2old |
So, poor heat transfer with stock mounting hardware is the issue? Can the Erik Buell Racing mounting hardware be used with stock 5mm rotor? | ||
| Court |
>>>> where I purposely overheated the brakes Don't remind me. One of my funnier stories of test riding involved a wee bit of "intentional" overheating. Fossil watches was presenting a very famous celebrity with a new Harley-Davidson in a big ceremony to be telecast at Macy's in NYC. They sent the bike to a custom painter to have it personalized with the name on the tank. The bike was then delivered to a Harley-Dealer. The dealer, kind of a dick is his own right, the agent for the celeb and a couple big shots were there when I was sent to do the required test ride of the bike. The agent made some nasty comment to me about if I knew what I was doing, how valuable the bike was, that my ride would be the last time the bike wasn't ridden by a "famous person" and to hurry up so as not to waste their time as the limo waited. I can say with complete confidence that . . .that bike was more thoroughly tested than any, production or prototype, I have ever ridden. I was a bit late returning as it took longer than I expected to get the front rotor, after 6 miles at 100mph with the brake on, to stop glowing cherry red. Nice bike with a perfectly functioning rev limiter (Message edited by court on October 30, 2010) | ||
| Tootal |
   Court, that's Fricken beautiful!! On another note, I have the 6mm rotor too. Love it. Had two stock ones go bad. I trashed it at Buelltoberfest, no problems. Money well spent IMO. (Message edited by tootal on October 30, 2010) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Note to self: when offering Court a ride on my bike...make SURE I haven't pissed him off first! I'd have brought it back WITH the glowing rotor  | ||
| Arcticktm |
The Erik Buell Racing mounting hardware should work on any rotor. They sell the same kit for any rotor they sell, 5mm or 6mm. I'm not ready to buy the overloaded GVWR theory. I only weigh 170 lbs, rarely ride 2-up, and rarely have the bike loaded with much gear. Yet, I have replaced rr wheel bearings (rust) and had plenty of pulsing before switching to a new rotor and pads. | ||
| Petebueller |
I've tried the kit out and it is good on the finned rotor and a 6mm stock rotor. The Braking Wave type rotor and the Alth rotor are thicker and won't float with the EB Racing kit. | ||
| Petebueller |
I've just measured an Alth and a Braking Rotor. The Alth is 5.5mm and the Braking is 5mm. I'll have to go back to the workshop and ask them whey they think the EB Racing mounting doesn't work with these. They should. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I'm not buying the overloaded bearing theory either. Didn't even have a passenger or anything the day mine failed. Mine failed when the filled up with water in the rain. Hub was sloshing too. New black bearings still holding up OK though. | ||
| Babired |
Last night I pick my ULY up from HD JP, my Buell tech, came out to the service desk and says " your front rotor is either bent or warped!" We have a brand new one for you and the mounting kit etc etc etc for..... that's when I stopped him and said "no thanks". I just bought my first product from Erik Buell Racing for the ULY the rotor and mounting kit I can hardly wait to get it on the ULY! (Message edited by babired on November 03, 2010) | ||
| Babired |
oh yeah I had front rotor warping on the X1 back in 2003 or 2004. Found out through a lot of research back then that the metal is mixed in the OEM X1 rotor produced by HD. So the pulsing was something I was used to before the ULY ever came out. So I never really complained about but just dealt with it. Next time ULY goes in for new tires the new 6mm rotor is going on and new triple trees for 2008 is being installed. Next year is going to be fun teaching! | ||
| Tootal |
Babired, do you need a fork lock pin for the new trees? I have one left. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
So, does the screws and washers for the 6mm rotor work on the 5mm rotor? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
My original 2000 X1 rotor warped early on too. They must have had a bad batch. My X1 was in the shop very much in the first year with warranty work. I don't think the company earned a profit from selling me my X1 | ||
| Babired |
Tootal, I think I might have the fork lock pin. I'll take a photo of it sometime this weekend and post it here. I know it was made by a Bad webber. I had a lot of warranty work on my X1 too. | ||
| Petebueller |
I've got all the parts back from the workshop and been through it. At the risk of a counter by EB Racing I'll say that the thickest rotor that the EB Racing mounting kit can be used for is the 5mm finned rotor. I'll let EB Racing know I've posted this so they can reply if they need to. This is the kit assembled without a rotor.  I measured a range of rotors Stock 2010 1125R - 0.194" = 4.93mm - fits 5mm Finned Rotor - 0.198" = 5.03mm - fits Braking Wave Style - 0.1995" = 5.07mm - too close to call Alth Wave Style - 0.209" = 5.31mm - won't work. The drive bushings are around 0.185" - so less than the thickness of the rotors. The pressure washer is 0.036" which is a bit less than a mm. As well as I could measure the bend in the pressure washer is 0.009". The clamp load on the Braking rotor appears to be on the pressure washer and not on the bushing spacer. There may be a bit of crush in the copper washer and outer spacer to help with the 1.5 thou that it seems to miss out by. It's too close so I'm sending stock rotor mounting kits to those that have bought the braking rotor and the EB Racing kit from me. I don't understand how it can fit a 6mm rotor. The pressure washer would be practically off the the bushing spacer and on to the thread of the bolt. | ||
| Dfishman |
Pete scroll back & look at the close up pics.The part of the "6mm" rotor that the mounting hardware touches is turned down to 5mm.That is how the new hardware kit can fit both rotors. | ||
| Pontlee77 |
So in other words, the hard ware kit works on both, the stock and the 6mm, right? | ||
| Dfishman |
Yes | ||
| Petebueller |
Thanks Dfishman. That makes sense - even the stock kit wouldn't work with 6mm. I had seen the edge in the picture but it didn't click when I was writing the post. The EB Racing mounting kit is pretty smart, and much cheaper than stock. Just need to be cafeful with the fit on aftermarket rotors. |
