| Author | Message | ||
     Snojet |
Okay, start snickering-laughing now because what I've done to myself.  I am in the process of replacing my intake seals and I think I've dropped an #27 torx bit in the rear cylinder. I am not 100% sure that the missing bit is in the engine, but I can't find it anywhere else. I've checked the whole bike over a dozen times, I have taken all the fairing off, and finally I've sweeped the floor and crawled around until my knees were crying. I really don't want to explain how or why this happened. I am really pissed right now, so I don't want to articulate it here. I am trying to verify that it is indeed in there. Note: the front intake valve was closed, the rear intake valve was opened enough to allow a bit to go into the cylinder. I've tried the following.... Positioned the intake valve to it's fullest open position and looked with a flashlight, placed a tiny magnet on flexible "safety wire" and tried to sweep the whole cylinder. I'm pretty sure I'm not able to fully sweep the whole surface of the piston. I've removed the spark plug and performed the same procedure as above. I've used my compressor and blew shop air in the spark plug hole and intake opening while looking at the other opening and seeing if I can blow the bit around and see it. Tried to use a long ty-wrap and sweep the piston and listen or see the bit. All the above attempt have not gotten my anywhere. At work I will be attempting to get a boroscope, but I'm not holding my breath on getting out of the workplace. Has anyone else done this? Has anyone successfully retrieved debris from a cylinder? Finally, I really-really-really do not want to rotate the engine and tear the cylinder apart!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially if I don't know it really even in there. | ||
| Snojet |
Oh, I forgot to mention one other idea. I plan on using my shop-vac and try and suck the bit out (again, if is even in there). I was going to adapt the end to cover both the spark plug hole and the intake opening. Wish me luck!! | ||
| Mnrider |
Maybe buy a thin magnet with a flexible shaft and work it in and around the engine. Good Luck! | ||
| Ratbuell |
If you can get it in, bend a metal coat-hangar as needed. Blob a piece of windshield adhesive (or something equally gummy/grabby) to the end of the hangar so it's nice and sticky, and see if you can grab the bit that way. I'd think if you rotate the engine by hand, with the spark plugs out, you'd be OK and wouldn't hurt anything. With no compression you should be able to feel if it starts dragging or catches on the cylinder wall. | ||
| Ratbuell |
And if it's in there, chances are it's at the downhill edge of the piston - away from the intake side and towards the exhaust side. | ||
| Jimmy_in_nc |
I don't have any insight but I can offer some sympathy. Adjusting the valves on my EX500 I knew to watch for the line up dowels. Got the valve cover off and YES they are there still. Pick one up and set it off to the side and go to pick up #2 and dropped it right down the timing chain passage. I went fishing for about 2 hours and finally I got it. Don't beat your self up too bad, it happens to the best of us. Jimmy | ||
| Fordrox |
Good Luck, I hate instances like that, "where the hell did it go, it can't just vanish, it's got to be here somewhere F*&K!!!" wow it almost appears that I have had a similar problem before. | ||
| Spiderman |
first it was another cam cover thread now another T-27 thread!!! | ||
| Jomartijr |
Remove the spark plug to that cylinder. Carefully rotate the piston to just short of tdc. Position or tilt the bike( two of you or use a hoist) to coax the bit toward the spark plug hole. Use an extension magnet through the plug hole to fish it out. | ||
| Motorbike |
I'm with Mnrider on this one. You need a small magnet on a thin flexible shaft so you can sort of control where the magnet goes. Slowly rotate the crank (by hand) to get the piston about an inch from TDC. Place the flex magnet through the plug hole and aim the magnet towards the downhill side of the piston top. Hopefully you will get the bit. I once dropped a screwdriver shaft down the distributor hole on a Pontiac 400 V8 that I had just overhauled and installed in my car. I heard it bounce against the oil pan. It took me two hours but I was able to fish it out with a magnet. All I can say is that I can look back and laugh about it today. I hope you can do the same someday! Please let us know how this turns out and how you finally get it out. I wish you the best! | ||
| Towpro |
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem. taf?Itemnumber=66550  Edit: I don't know how big the end is, would it fit into a spark plug hole? (Message edited by towpro on February 23, 2010) | ||
| Etennuly |
Drain the fluids, hang it upside down and shake it!  Did you check all of your pockets of all of the clothes and jackets you were wearing? Since aging has it's grip on me, I start re-tracking my movements to the common things. Look around the phone, radio, air compressor, where I put my keys in the house, in the pickup(I can never remember how often I get something in or out of there).  Then pull the front plug, jack up the back wheel put it in gear and rotate the engine very slowly and very gently. I doubt there is enough clearance for the thing to fit between the head and piston. If the engine stops turning you will feel it stop solid. That would likely be conformation that it is in there. Back off the piston until the intake valve is wide open, drain gas, oil, primary, and take the battery out. Hang the bike upside down from the rafters (or other) and shake it around. If it fell in, it can fall out,  gravity can be your friend. IMHO it would have to be quicker and easier than a big tear down. | ||
| Svh |
I would also check the floor again as I am assuming you have once already. I get my head right down on the floor and look for stuff when I drop something. Much easier to pick it out when you are able to see it from the side. Also check all the knooks and crannies of the engine and chassis. If its not there anywhere then try the above methods as they are all mostly good. | ||
| Snojet |
I have good news, well good for now. I was able to score a boroscope from work. I am sort of surprised but glad they allowed me to sign it out. Now I will be able to thoroughly check the cylinder. I do want to thank you all for the replies. I will let you know if the offending bit is where it shouldn't be. Update later... | ||
| Ratbuell |
...also check the beer fridge. I tend to find lots of interesting items in there after a long night  | ||
| Mnrider |
Sometimes I put the cereal in the fridge and the milk in the cabinet.  | ||
| Ulynut |
I would take the air hose and blow down the bike if you don't find it in the cylinder with that boroscope. | ||
| Tootal |
Take the other plug out and put in 5th gear and rotate the piston to it's lowest position. This will allow a magnet a better angle to sweep the piston or to use the boroscope. As mentioned it's probably on the down hill side of the piston. | ||
| Snojet |
Woo-Whoo!!!! Good news, the boroscope showed me that there wasn't a bit in the cylinder! I am relieved now. I have also ensured that both intake valves are closed and I will then continue my install of the intake, ect.... Possibly Thread-jacking my own thread.... Working on this bike sometime really STINKS!!! I bought the after market intake seals (Dennis Kirk) and they don't fit. I am now forced to trim/grind the intake a little. I also read this here from others that have replace the intake seals. Lastly, hopefully this will solve my stumbling/loss of power that I have been experiencing. That was another post a couple of month ago, or so. I'll update that post once I actually fix this bike. Thank you everyone for your suggestions, this site rocks!! (Message edited by snojet on February 23, 2010) | ||
| Ulynut |
Good deal! Now...where is it?  | ||
| Froggy |
Damn, I was secretly waiting for you to rotate the motor, remove the head and shout "FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU" when you find the bit laying on the ground.  | ||
| Bobh |
To do a final check for debris in jet engine intakes to prevent Foreign Object Damage (FOD), we would take a strong light with a beam (not a flood) and put the light on the bottom of the duct and sweep it around. With the beam of light just touching the duct surprisingly small objects really stand out. If you try that on your floor, you may be able to find the missing Torx bit, or maybe some other missing stuff too.  One of the Mag-lites would probably work well. | ||
| Stevem123 |
Try looking for the bit under the starter motor. | ||
| Blasterd |
It's got to be something in the air today, I topped off my oil before I went home from work and I have a filler with a small hose that goes on the oil can and it shot right off into the swingarm tank, boy it was a PITA to get out but 2 HOURS later I was on the road... | ||
| Bculy |
I just want to tell you.... I feel for you. | ||
| Etennuly |
WELL???? | ||
| Ksc12c |
and I thought dropping Chapstick into the gas tank sucked. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
+1 on checking under the starter motor. Years ago, my X1 lost a header nut. I replaced the nut with one in an auto parts place. About a month later, I happened to see it laying there on top of the tranny like it just happened! Thousands of miles of bumpy road and it was still there happy as can be. A tool you should make: 1)Go to radio shack and buy a blister pack with those tiny rare earth magnets. 2)get some 14AWG copper wire and wrap the wire around it and hold it there with epoxy. This is the ultimate blind parts finder Those little magnets are strong enough to attract to each other through your hand. | ||
| Snojet |
Well Folks, Due to schedules and such I haven't put together the bike yet. Maybe tomorrow. I tell you that these after market seals are real tight in there, will continue the wrestling match. As for the bit, as long as it's not in either cylinder (thankfully I was able to verify this) I am "Over It". I will just assemble the bike and see how she runs, that is once it stops snowing and being butt-cold. Again, guys thanks for the great tips, this site rocks!!! Later, Snojet | ||
| Reepicheep |
You can also get those uber-magnets out of old hard drives. I did the same thing, epoxied to a piece of wire, but I used braided stainless. |
