| Author | Message | ||
     Xb12xmike |
Can I buy the rack and mounting hardware for just the topcase?? Is it even available? What would the total be?? Is it safe to use topcase with only top rack?? Is it THAT unsafe to mount without the sideracks??? (as per note in instructions) I have contacted Hepko & Becker and they will not sell me the proper rack. They said: "sorry these racks are sold exclusively by Buell/Harley dealers". I have read here in a few threads that the top rack kit can only be bought from an existing siderack owner. The twisted throttle rack would work but it only mounts/locks the bottom of the case to the rack, not the other rear part. Plus, this rack is not compatible with the Buell side racks without modifications. (how much mods?) Should I just ebay this puppy? | ||
| Mikef5000 |
The buell racks were only supplied through Buell, not H&B direct. The top case maounting hardware was not sold individually because they wanted you to only use the top case when using the sidecases (well, sidecase racks). The side case racks help support the load from the top case. I believe you can get the mounting hardware, but you're going to need to order it piece by piece, as there is not "top case kit". | ||
| Ratbuell |
You need a friend with an XT (factory top and side cases), so you can pirate their VIN to "re"order the topcase rack. As noted...DO NOT use the topcase rack without the sidecase racks. Think swimming pool diving board. Putting that much stuff out back of the Uly tail turns the tail section into that diving board. It's a lever effect. Don't do it. If you want to save a couple $$ and take your chances, bolt a rack to the triple tail. But to answer your questions...yes, the parts are listed seperately in the XT/XP parts breakout. The top rack is the same form Journey (XT) to Outdoorsman (XP) setup; just the sidecase racks are different. Again, though...I wouldn't do it without the side racks. | ||
| Nadz |
Engineerfag here, seconding Ratbuell. It's not the rack's integrity you'd be worried about, but the rear subframe. That is a long lever arm made of cast aluminum secured by only four(?) screws. When going over a bump, the dynamic loads made by a full case (and who really only carries fifteen pounds as reccomended)... well you get the picture. Side case racks go on or off in ten minutes. Get 'em now while they're still being manufactured. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Very impressive post Ratbuell, and good follow-up Nadz! This is a great forum with a lot of experienced and/or knowledgeable folks. Very cool. Thanks for the great info. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
Thank you guys. Can 15-20 lbs in the top case equal the downforce of a 200 lb passenger? | ||
| Jim_williams |
I've got an outdoorsman top box I might sell, and, I don't have a problem with you "pirating", as Ratbuell put it, my VIN to get the racks. PM me if interested. Oh, just reread your post. You already have the top box? Jim (Message edited by jim_williams on January 08, 2010) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Depending on the shock load (i.e. "how big is the bump you just hit"), combined with how much farther away from the lever's pivot point....yes, it can. I used to do stage rigging/lighting/audio for a living. You'd be surprised how a "little" shock load can affect a rig in a big way, and how a short lever can really multiply that loading effect. Not only is the top box further "out" on that lever on a Uly...but the lever gets quite a bit skinnier back there compared to under the passenger. I haven't run any numbers or anything...but looking at it with my 'old' riggers' eye, it makes perfect sense to me. Again - think diving board. Jump in the middle of one, doesn't do much. Jump at the base, does nearly nothing. Jump at the end, though....hooBOY. | ||
| Hangetsu |
Get the Fehling rack by Givi and you can mount what ever top case you want. http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/3 745/474/ | ||
| Ourdee |
If I remember right, when you double the distance from the pivot point you increase the stress there by 8 times. It is why I love my 6 foot breaker bar for lug-nuts. | ||
| Nadz |
Torque is just force x distance (same load at twice the distance results in twice the torque. But torque creates stress, which is at maximum at the section "top" and "bottom" surfaces. In a cast section, a stress riser (i.e. a hole, sharp edge, or void) in tension is where you get the failure. I think the seat rails are plenty strong under the passenger, but the tail piece that bridges the seat rails (and exclusively carries the topcase rack) has a much smaller section. The side racks support this piece directly, tying it to the seat rails and transferring dynamic loads to the footpeg supports. Pretty ingenious little structure, and just another example of how well-designed our machines are. Thanks for making me think about this, guys. -Nadz | ||
| Ratbuell |
The other thing to focus on is the side racks. 2 sides of the triangle are already there - the passenger footpeg, and the tail section. The sidecase racks complete the triangle...which is one of the strongest shapes we've got for support without flexing or distortion. (Message edited by ratbuell on January 08, 2010) | ||
| Xb12xmike |
wow man!! Lots of info/answers!! thanks for confirming my Q's. Anyways,..yes I already have the Hepco Becker Junior TC45 top box, (outdoorsman) I jumped the gun and bought the case without realizing the cost of racks and what pita it would be to get them. I was told I would be better off buying the full kit or side kit and I should have listened and waited. How about this: If I fold the tripletail backrest down on seat could I attach/mount it onto the tripletail backrest?? The box would be mounted to the backrest and would be over the passenger position. If that works..(I don't see why not) Then I can eventually get the full side case kit, and have them add the toprack.. but then I will still be stuck buying each piece and paying more for it. In the end, I would be buying the full 3pc kit for retail price. Maybe I should stop thinking about it and just unload it on ebay. | ||
| Ratbuell |
If you have it ON the tripletail, in its forward position ON the passenger seat...it's a "passenger" as far as weight goes. Should be fine. Added bonus from doing it that way? YOU get a backrest  Round numbers: Sidecase racks, $83/each Topcase rack, upper: $100 Topcase rack, lower (crossbrace under seat): $65 Sidecase crossbrace (under seat): $65 Doesn't include nuts, bolts, washers, etc. From '09 XP parts listings. | ||
| Santafe |
Jim_williams I would be interested in your Outdoorsman top box. I'd also like the side bags as well. I have an 08 XT with the stock bulbous bags and need another narrower set of side bags. Contact me: santafe66 at gmail dot com | ||
| Bobbuell1961 |
Ratbuell, why would you need a VIN to order a rack, you can't tell me they are now a restricted part ?.................. can you?  | ||
| Ratbuell |
They're restricted and have been from day one. They do NOT want anyone ordering the topcase rack who doesn't have the sidecases (racks) on the bike already, for the reasons mentioned above. Santafe - if you have the stock racks on the XT, the Outdoorsman cases will NOT fit. You need to change the side racks or remove your passenger footpegs. The outdoorsman racks put the bags about 2" further back on the bike, with the latches at the rear (also requiring the turn signal relocation). If you put them on Journey (XT) racks, they will hit the passenger pegs. Hard. Like, "dimple the bag to get them to latch" hard. Trust me, done it with my own hands when we had an XT and XP side by side and I decided to try swapping bags. The good news is, once you get the Outdoorsman side racks and turn signal relocation kit installed....you can swap bags at will, your Journey bags will latch right on and off, and your passenger will have more legroom to boot! (Message edited by ratbuell on January 14, 2010) | ||
| Etennuly |
Not to break the egg crate here.....but why could one not build simple angle brackets from the top case brackets down to the foot pegs where the side case brackets bolt on? Then a gusset brace up to where the top front of the side case bracket bolts up, with a tie bar between them for lateral stability? That would even give you a place to mount up wheelie bars. The trailer hitch still has to go to the swing arm though.  | ||
| Bobbuell1961 |
Rat, I have to disagree,I checked today, the top rack is a normal part for order. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Did you *order* one? Or just look at the H-Dnet availability screen? Every single one we've ordered gets kicked off the order as 'restricted - VIN required'. Then we have to call SPOC and give them the information they require in order to actually receive the rack. | ||
| Santafe |
Ratbuell, Thanks for the info. I checked at my local dealer for the price on the Outdoorsman bags but they didn't mention I would have to change out the side racks. Good catch. I'm going to order the racks and the bags, or maybe I'll see if I can get the bags on ebay or through someone on Badweb. I know I have to get the turn signal kit and the racks and pretty sure I won't find all that on ebay. | ||
| 4_pete_sake |
I have rarely seen the bags for sale on here and I have been looking for over 6 months.... that being said I just mounted the brackets last week and the bags should be arriving this week.... order from a dealer When I ordered the racks and turn signal relocation bar, the actual turn signals with longer pig tails were not available... I simply lengthened mine ... but I don't know the current situation on the signals now... that was back in Oct or Nov... I have been running the Fehling rear rack from TT and Givi topcase for over 18 months and never had any problems but it mounts different then the stock top rack from buell and I am considering modifying with extensions to remount but I on hold right now.... the only thing I can say slightly bad about running the solo rear rack and bag is that it seemed to bounce some or vibrate maybe.... not noticable while riding mind you.... I would see it in my shadow or if I turned around... bolts never loosened though.... not really negative... I didn't like the way it looked but the way it functioned... I am a function over form mind set I will miss my skinny behind now I fear, running side cases... hopefully I won't be telling any stories like Dr Greg about hitting hedges in hotel parking lots.... or worse.... Fun and exciting stuff thou.... |
