| Author | Message | ||
     Buellerxt |
You know, Froggy had a good point when he said that a lot of things on the internet are portrayed as the H1N1 virus but, having said that, I sure have read a lot about surging/grabbing front brakes on here!  In an effort to NOT have that problem I make sure I don't hold the front brake when stopped (can't hurt!), and I've read about the brake in the manual. A couple questions: I've read that 'compacted' rotor springs 'MAY' cause it. Compacted with brake dust? Does the rotor have to come off to clean them? Do you folks replace the rotor screws/bolts every time you remove the rotor? Many seem to either sand (200 grit) the rotor and/or clean with brake cleaner. Do you do that with the rotor 'on' the bike like I probably would? Thanks for any help. One thing I'm quickly learning about Buell is that they specialize in 'mystery' problems (i.e. bearing failures, rotor problems, belts braking). Many 'theories' as to why each happens! What is it, just because Erik is a thinker they want us all thinking?  I want to just ride! (Message edited by buellerxt on December 03, 2009) | ||
| Froggy |
I stole that line from Court 
I never focused on cleaning them, they just get wet and wiped a little when I am cleaning the rim with my big sponge thing.
Service manual calls for replacement each time. The bolts get stretched when you torque them down. The issue would have to be really bad in order for you to need to take off the rotor. | ||
| Etennuly |
I have had mine off to paint the rims, cleaned inspected reinstalled with thread locker, 25,000+ more miles no problems. I reused the springs and blocks also.I am so bad, I should be ashamed of myself Do NOT use brake fluid to clean the rotor. Use Brake Cleaner. It is a strong cleaner that melts brake dust, grease, grime and such away. It will also melt into the powder coat on the rims and it is very hard on painted surfaces. So spray it on a rag then wipe the rotor. It evaporates very quickly, so it must be done rapidly. | ||
| Ulynut |
Many seem to either sand (200 grit) the rotor and/or clean with brake fluid. Never clean the rotor or anything else with brake fluid. Use brake cleen instead. Like Froggy said, the bolts are one time use only. I had the pulsing problem. I changed the pads to Lyndall Golds, sanded and cleaned the rotor on with it on the bike, and it solved it for about 200 miles. When the problem came back, I took the rotor off and sanded it with a random orbit sander. 200 miles and it came back again. Then I replaced the rotor, and haven't had a problem since. | ||
| Froggy |
Ulynut, did you change the springs when you took it off to sand it? | ||
| Buellerxt |
Sorry guys, I DIDN'T mean brake 'fluid', though that is what I said. I meant brake 'cleaner'. I appreciate the input. Etennuly, are you saying that you had 'NO' brake pulsing/grabbing problems in 25,000+ miles? If so, cool. Any thoughts on why, given all the talk of problems on here? Ths. Ulynut,do you feel that your first rotor was warped from the factory, got warped due to (?), and that the pulsing problem is independent from the type of pads? Ths. Are the springs 'not' an issue here? Thanks guys. | ||
| Etennuly |
Etennuly, are you saying that you had 'NO' brake pulsing/grabbing problems in 25,000+ miles? If so, cool. Any thoughts on why, given all the talk of problems on here? Ths Oh no, I had a brake pulse that was so bad with the original pads that it was a scary thing to use the front brake at all. I fought the dealer with it for a few months, then I took the caliper off, cleaned the pad surface with brake cleaner and scotch brite pads, and cleaned the rotor with the same. I then had a perfectly working brake for about 300 to 500 miles, depending on the riding I was doing. Then I had to repeat the cleaning process. I got 19,000 miles out of the original pads. I replaced them with the Lyndall Golds from American Sport Bike. I did the 'burn in break in' per Al, and all has been good since. It does "chatter" a little bit now under normal to hard braking. it has been like this for the last 10,000 miles, it is now at 44,000+ miles. These Lyndall pads are looking good for another 10,000 miles or so. How brakes work and last are totally at the command of the rider. But this pulsing problem is not. I have found the factory pads to be the cause, as many others have. But then, some people ride with them and never see a pulse problem. | ||
| 7873jake |
I'm going to summarize some observations as I have been digging into this item as of late: It sounds like most don't experience the pulse/grab until the OEM pads have had a chance to decide they don't like their marriage to the rotor. Once that happens, it sounds like the pads become the culprit for the continued behavior but in the process imapct the rotor somehow, setting it up to be a lesser but still present pulse/grab issue even after the pads are gone. How severe this becomes seems to be in direct relation to how long one keeps the OEM pads in place. (Again, this is an observation I summarized from reading numerous archived threads on pulsing/grabbing brakes and not based on anything more than my addled brain function.) Given this, is it worth abandoning the OEM pads in favor of a set of EBC, Galfer, or Lyndall Golds before the OEMs chatter up a good rotor? Would moving away from the OEMs before the pulse/grab settles in *possibly* prevent it from developing or being as pronounced? (Damn, I'm back to sentences with question marks in them again. That took less than 24 hours.) | ||
| Pso |
I put the Lyndall pads in at about 5K miles. now w/over 20K miles I have never had any pulsing or problem. I sure do like these pads over the stockers on my 06. I even like the sort of swooshing sound they make. There was some discussion several years ago on this board about some inferior rotors or some such. Also from my readings and watching it appears as if the latest iteration belts are last longer than the originals. I will be getting the new wheel after folks w/it have used it for an extended period, lots of cash for something unproven. | ||
| Etennuly |
7873, I think you are doing pretty well! If I were to do it over, knowing what I do now about these brakes, I think I would have ridden it until the first time it pulsed, tossed the pads, cleaned the rotor, put on the aftermarket improved pads, break them in and ride. | ||
| Buellerxt |
I'm concerned that switching to after market pads will make it impossible to make a warranty claim on 'pulsing' brakes. The dealers would just blame the after market pads. I mentioned the brake problem to the owner of a local dealership, who is a big Buell guy, and he said it would be foolish to switch from oem pads because Erik did all kinds of research, blah, blah, blah before choosing them. | ||
| Etennuly |
Yep, they did all the research, but HD was in charge of writing the check to the vendor. They would not warranty mine or those of a few others with the same issue. When mine was new I would have to skip to BCS to fix it. I felt the dealer should have so I dealt with it to skip the BS. | ||
| Froggy |
If he did all kinds of research, we wouldn't be having this discussion  I kid!!! | ||
| Dr_greg |
Well, my rotor was fine UNTIL I installed the Lyndall pads. New rotor, back to stock pads. YMMV, that's for sure... --Doc | ||
| Buellerxt |
Dr. Greg, I know you are a busy guy but would you elaborate for us new-to-Uly folks? How many 'non-pulsing' miles did you have before you went to Lyndall's? Why do you think you had no problem's to that point? Why did you switch to Lyndall's? How long before problems set in and what were they? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Ths. Mike | ||
| Glenn |
EBC pads work great with no buildup on the rotors. Good feel too. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Glenn, If you have a minute, what has been your experience with the front brake? The more you can specify riding style, miles, experiences, etc., the more help for us newbies! lol I have ridden many a mile on bikes and have never had a brake or wheel bearing problem. I bought the Uly for touring and would like to avoid problems if possible. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Would you folks believe it has been snowing in southwest Houston for the past 7-8 hours! | ||
| 7873jake |
I'd dare go one further in this discussion and ask that if there was a specific type of pad (sintered, carbon/kevlar, semi-metallic) that has earned kudos or caveats, please share that as well. (Message edited by 7873jake on December 04, 2009) | ||
| Ulynut |
did you change the springs when you took it off to sand it? yes ,do you feel that your first rotor was warped from the factory, got warped due to (?), and that the pulsing problem is independent from the type of pads? I'm not sure what the problem is. I USED TO hold the front brake while standing still. I don't anymore. I'm pretty hard on the brakes, but I suspect a lot of us are. I figured it might be a manufacturing defect of some sort with the rotor, and rather than fight it out with the dealer for months, I just replaced it myself and went riding. The stock pads may be the problem. Who knows?  Lots of people seemed to like the Lyndall Golds, so I tried them. I would give the Lyndalls a "B" for street riding. I did a track day with them on, and I promise I will change them out for the next track day. They faded pretty bad once they got hot. So much so it got kinda scary. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Mine might pulse a bit but not so much that it bothers me. (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on December 04, 2009) | ||
| Buellerxt |
That's how I hope it goes for me, EG. Are you still on your first set of stock pads with no problem? How many miles? Do you service them or just ride? Do you hold them at stops? Ths. | ||
| Jphish |
Al sent me the carbon/kevlar golds. I assume those are the right ones. My stockers pulse so bad...it's like riding a mechanical bull. | ||
| Dr_greg |
Busy indeed. Next week is the last week of class, and I've spent almost the whole day (Saturday) working out the Newton-Euler symbolic dynamic Equations of Motion (EOM) for a 3-DOF (Degree of Freedom) planar robot (final project in my robotics class). I had several algebraic errors which took me most of the day to correct. Would much rather have been wrenching or riding (although currently it's COLD for central New Mexico at a balmy 36F at 3:30 p.m. Shoulda used a symbolic math package (e.g. MAPLE) but I figured with only 3DOF I could do it by hand. Humph. Anyway, I'll try to answer a few of your questions. When my original front pads needed replacing, I installed Lyndall LRB Gold pads (on the advice of folks on this forum). That was on February 24, 2007 at 24,511 miles. I bedded the Lyndall pads in as per their instructions. They worked fine; although they lacked the initial "bite" of the stock pads they felt more progressive. Somewhere around 34,000 miles the pulsing began. It got progressively worse (at the end it was VERY annoying) until I had a new rotor installed under warranty (took it in for diagnosis the day before my warranty was up) at Santa Fe HD/Buell. The new roto was installed on October 9, 2007 at 36,457 miles. I also had them install new stock pads (which I brought with me). Prior to installing the Lyndalls the front brake worked perfectly. Dunno what happened. Maybe I didn't perform the "bedding" properly but I followed directions to the letter. I made a half-hearted attempt at cleaning the rotor, but no difference. Also checked the runout, which appeared to me to be well within spec. Santa Fe HD/Buell diagnosed the rotor as being "warped" and ordered me a replacement under warranty with no questions asked. Very nice. The front brake continued to work perfectly right up until I totaled the Uly on a deer on December 6, 2008, at almost 56,000 miles. No, I had no chance to brake before the deer strike at 72 mph. My replacement '06 Uly now has almost 25,000 miles on him---with stock pads---and shows no signs of pulsing, or any other aberrant behavior. I'm sticking with the stock pads---I do not routinely brake hard (called riding "the Pace," no?)---and they work just fine for me. The physical structure of the ZTL disk is quite different from a "typical" disk: its larger radius and lack of a central web could well result in a greater tendency to distort under thermal loading. Although they successfully use the ZTL on the 1125 in road racing, don't they? Who knows? --Doc | ||
| 7873jake |
The OEM pads are the widely available Nissin pads, correct? For about $48/pr for the front? | ||
| Buellerxt |
Thanks, Doc. Much appreciated given your work load. I hope I can duplicate your results with the stock pads. Our riding styles 'seem' to be somewhat similar so I should have a good chance! | ||
| Jpgrego |
Just to throw my experience out there for reference.... I started experiencing the pulsing front brake withing the first 3-4k miles. I ignored it and did nothing for awhile (laziness I know) and after finding this forum I replaced the pads with Lyndals around 7 or 8k miles. I sanded the rotor and bedded in the pads per the instructions and it still pulsed. I rode it for awhile thinking it would improve and it never did. I'm now at 16k miles and it seems a bit better but I've pretty much accepted it as a normal trait of the ZTL brakes. This winter I may end up replacing it with either a wave rotor or the new Buell rotor in hopes that they work better. No luck yet but I still love this bike! -Patrick | ||
| Xb12xmike |
In case there was crud in my rotor mount springs, I sprayed my mounts with w40, wiped down the excess and my pulsing stopped for while. I guess till the wd evaporated? Do you think the use of some high quality chain grease would help?? |
