| Author | Message | ||
     Crempel |
I wonder if anyone has had this experience. When I apply the front brake at high (over 50 mph) I get a pounding in the foot pegs. When I am slowing gently to a stop from low speed, i.e. pulling up to a stop light, the front end bobs up and down. What seems to be happening is that there is a slippery section on the brake rotor, perhaps just 20 degrees of the circle and so when that part comes around to the pads is slides past with very little friction. It is impossible to stop smoothly and I look like an idiot when pulling up behind somebody. I talked with Al at American Sportbike and he didn't think from the way I described it that is was just a layer laid down by the pads that was causing it. I have ordered a new rotor from him, but any input will be appreciated. It started with the stock pads and I switched to the Lyndalls, but that didn't fix the problem. I have also tried to deglaze the rotor and pads several times. Dealer checked run-out and consistency of thickness and all is with spec so they don't want to replace the rotor under warranty. HELP | ||
| Froggy |
Clean the rotor surface and the springs. | ||
| Buewulf |
Did the tech test ride the bike? Your description of the symptoms seems very extreme. I can't imagine the dealer would deny warranty work if the tech experiences what you are describing. If so, try another dealer. Just because the rotor passes doesn't mean everything is in order (which it clearly isn't.) | ||
| Metaldude |
Your symptom of pounding while braking at high speeds sounds a lot like a toast front motor mount. But having the problem also a low speeds makes me think that I may be wrong. That mount comes off pretty easy by supporting the engine with a jack and then suspending your frame from the ceiling of your garage with racheting tie-downs. Just to make sure you've covered everything, remove that mount and check the isolator for tears. You may also get by with just throwing on the Palmer motor mount saver. | ||
| Crempel |
I have cleaned the rotor surface with brake cleaner several times (with no improvement) and whacking the rotor at each mounting point with a rubber mallet showed them to be all free. That was one of the things that the dealer suggested. I don't seem to be able to get direct access to the technician, alway talk to a different service advisor. They claim the tech rides the bike, but how do I know for sure? The service manager says they can feel the footpeg thing, but not the slow speed deal which is amazing to me, its so obvious. He says without being able to pinpoint which part is the problem, he can't just start throwing parts at it. In New Mexico I don't have a lot of dealer options. I also don't think it is the engine mount since the bike runs very smoothly when not on the brakes. I have one of the Palmer mount savers. I just haven't installed it yet. | ||
| Dr_greg |
Was this at Thunderbird H-D? I had my front rotor replaced under warranty (barely) at Santa Fe H-D/Buell. No questions asked. You might try there. --Doc | ||
| Vic_647 |
Couple of things to check - Front tire and steering head bearings: Check that the front tire is mounted to the rim correctly and that there are no broken belts in the tire. I know it's not common, but if the bead were to separate from the rim, it would cause a portion of the tread to sit lower or taller than the rest of the tire, relative to the rim. This usually only happens during a tire change (and is usually fixed at that point as well)... Belts coming apart, fairly common on cars, especially if they have bad shocks or are driven on rough roads. I've never seen it on a bike, but anything's possible. Easy check, lift the front end, slowly spin the tire (2-3 seconds per rotation), put your hand on the tread (lightly enough that the tire will continue to rotate). If you feel a "high" or "low" spot during the rotation, check the bead. If the bead appears normal, look for treads that appear abnormal (stretched or separated). If you find anything out of place on the treads, replace the tire... If it is a broken belt, you don't want to ride the bike until you've replaced the tire, period. When it blows (when, not "if"), it will be rapid and there's a good chance the tread will separate from the carcass. If the tire looks good, then (while the bike is on the stand or jack), try to wobble the forks forward and back (grasping near the seal area). Any excessive play could contribute to front end wobbles and vibrations (especially during braking) and should be treated right away. How many miles on the bike? On the front tire? Good luck with it! | ||
| Crempel |
It is, of course, Thunderbird. Maybe I will give Santa Fe a try. Not the most convenient, but if it gets results. I'm sure its not the tire as I've had the problem thru several tires. I have 17k miles on the bike and on the current tire just a few hundred. | ||
| Jphish |
Ya can't clean the gunk off the front rotor with just brake fluid. I sanded mine off with Garnet (NOT aluminum oxide)200# sandpaper. Took awhile. Made a big difference. Also if you 'hold' the Uly with the front brake on hills, seems to impart more gunk on that particular spot on rotor. Compounding problem. The front isolator should be pretty visible if it's 'collapsed' on to the mount - there would be a very small gap compared to spec. Someone posted pics of a good/bad front isolator - look in search topics. Good luck - I would certainly try another dealer. | ||
| Crempel |
I did try sandpaper, but I'm sure it was just the common aluminum oxide type. I'll try to find some Garnet stuff. Is it readily available, HomoDepot, etc? I have always wondered though about the holding the brakes on hills. Wouldn't that occur at completely random spots on the rotor? I live in a hilly place and pretty much have to hold on the brake or......If I held the brake on a hundred times, wouldn't I have covered the rotor completely? If only one spot on the rotor picks of the gunk, wouldn't that be a defective rotor? | ||
| Ourdee |
I had this problem when I started riding the Uly. My prior bike had a drum front brake and I used it at stop lights while stopped. I have changed to keeping my right foot on the brake at stops with the front brake released as soon as possible when stopping. Solved my troubles of built up brake pad material on the rotor. | ||
| Jphish |
I get my Garnet paper @ ACE or Truevalue hardware. I hear the logic in the equal distribution of gunk hypothesis. I try not to use the front brake on hills if possible - I've had to sand my rotor 3 x in 15k mi. It pulses like hell otherwise. I just lean it over to the left and use the rear - odd - never had a problem with the rear brake. I had the same diagnosis from dealer - only out .005 - not enough to replace under warranty. Changing to Lyndalls, now that Al sent me my xmas box. Hope it cures the problem. | ||
| Firstbatch |
Jphish has it right........mucho elbow grease with 150 garnet paper.....if that does not work then time for a new rotor. Buy an extra front motor mount now anyways....if you keep the Uly you will need one. Front motor mount last between 10 -15K miles. | ||
| Crempel |
I will give the sand paper a try. Does anyone have any evidence that the Palmer donut helps the front motor mount last longer? | ||
| Froggy |
In my opinion, the jury is still out on the mount saver, there are only a handful of people that use them, so its hard to say for sure if they do help. The donut is cheap, I will pick one up with my next order just for the hell of it. | ||
| Eulysses |
Can we put the garnet paper in the pads and go ride it off?  | ||
| Crempel |
Now that sounds like a great idea to me! | ||
| Crempel |
OK. I spent 20 minutes with the garnet sandpaper yesterday sanding away. All excited that my problems are forever? cured. Took it out this morning on a test ride and guess what? Not 1% better! I was honestly surprised. I guess I will have to replace the rotor unless anyone has any further ideas. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
The little springy thingies that mount the rotor to the wheel are known to sometimes get full of crap, preventing the floating disk from floating. I would suggest removing the disk and looking it over for warping and make sure the springy mounty things are still OK before actually buying anything. | ||
| Etennuly |
What Nate said. Be careful using brake cleaner around the wheel, it tends to melt grime into the powder coat. You may have a float/spring stuck or dirty making it not float as it should, it could make one spot seem out of spec. The rotor can be cleaned with brake cleaner and a scotch brite pad(careful with the rim), and you must clean the pad surface(like with 100 grit paper) at the same time, to make a break in/burn in work. If you have just cleaned the rotor surface, the gunk build up will still be on the pads. Likewise, if you put new pads on and did not clean the rotor. Failing all of this, when you take the rotor off and having it clean, you can measure for thickness all around it with a caliper and then lay it on a fairly thick piece of glass to measure for warping. Lay it flat on the glass and slide a feeler gage blade in and out around the circumference, mark any 'bad' areas, then do the flip side. This can tell you if it has a warp and or a 'thick/thin' spot. | ||
| Crempel |
I'v done all these things (and most of them several times) and the dealer has checked for warpage and thickness consistency. I'm so sick of the whole thing that I think I will install the new rotor later today and if that doesn't fix it go up on a water tower with a rifle... | ||
| Jphish |
Yep - front rotor can drive one to do extreme things (Hey wait...my house is close to a water tower...you don't live in Tumwater do you??) I'm going to use Garnet paper & sand my rotor down to 'shiny' and replace pads with the Lyndalls. Checked everything else - out of ideas. i'll let ya know | ||
| Etennuly |
Well if all of that has been done the writing is on the wall.....er.....tower.....in this case! Don't do anything rash, just put a rotor and installation kit on there. Clean the little spring holes with like a little bottle brush and soapy water, then blow them out with compressed air. Best to use the proper lock tight on those rotor bolts. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Has anyone put 20,30,40, or 50,000 miles on a Uly WITHOUT having the front brake issue? If so, did you do anything special or just ride it? I'm curious here, if there are folks without brake problems out there, did any of you NOT have a rear wheel bearing problem? I like riding this bike, my 2008 Uly, but with the significant problems that seem to be widespread, and the lack of interested dealers and spare part availability, I'm really thinking that my Sportster will continue to be my touring machine, though that's what I bought the Uly for. I have 45,000 miles on my Sportster with zero problems. Zero! My Glide had 100,000 miles with only a stator problem after I got the cam gears installed. Come on, lets hear from the 'No Problem' guys! | ||
| Froggy |
Yep. I just rode it. I pulsed up the rotor quick on Uly#1, but then my replacement bike I used different riding habits like not holding the front brake at lights. I did develop a slight pulse, but that was after my 2 dozen stoppies in a row, but that ZTL2 brake makes it so easy! So far nothing on my 1125R and 1125CR.
Yep, the internet makes everything look like H1N1.  I would brag about my 1125CR is flawless, but I burnt out a tail light bulb, what a POS that bike is! At least my 1125R has been perfect. | ||
| Ourdee |
+1 on; Yep, the internet makes everything look like H1N1.  | ||
| Etennuly |
I am on the original rotor at 44,000+ miles. It did the pulse real bad until I figured how to clean it properly. I did that every 400 to 500 miles until I replaced the stock pads at 19,000 miles. I then put the Lyndal's on there, burned them in per break in, and they are still on at 44,000. It has not had the pulse since the Lyndal pads went on, but the rotor is not completely smooth anymore, not pulsing, just not smooth. My rear bearings made it to 33,000 miles. Second set of orange ones still going. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
I finally had my rotor replaced because of warpage at 8k and installed c55 sintered pads, the pulse came back. Installed Lyndall golds at 12k, no pulse for 50 miles then it came back. Sprayed the rotor mounts with WD 40 and pulse disappeared for a while. (25 miles) It really takes the fun out of owning this bike. | ||
| Mnrider |
Here's a summary of what auto racer Tommy Kendall says about brake pulsation. Your riding along at 60 or whatever and the light turns yellow so you apply the brakes hard to stop,you get stopped and you are still holding the front brake. The heat from the brake pads and the deposits sit in one spot on the rotor causing a pulse issue. So he says when you come to a hard stop let go of the brake and let the bike-car roll to spread the heat around the rotor and cool the brake pads and spread the deposits out,then don't hold the front brake. | ||
| Crempel |
I still maintain that just by sheer randomness that this scenario should result in the entire rotor being covered by pad material in very short order. I doubt that I stop with the rotor and pad lining up at the same spot every time. I have owned many bikes in the past and used the same riding habits. Why did NONE of them every do this? If some of the pad material is transferring to the rotor, but only in one spot, isn't this indicative of a defective rotor? |
