| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
"If all Buell offered was the 1125 engine, they'd be losing me as a customer." Me too. It would be beyond moronic to dump over half your customers. A view that Buell should drop the air-cooled engine is ridiculously narrow minded. It is also horribly poor business. Not everyone is looking to ride the race winning model of the day. In fact, I'd say that prior to the 1125R, not one Buell rider was looking for such a machine. So to say that Buell should drop the air-cooled engine is not a sound business proposition. If Buell's liquid cooled models ever oupace the air-cooled models by better than 4:1 in sales, then maybe you'll have a point. Even then, if Buell is still selling thousands of the air-cooled models, why would they want to give up that market share to Ducati and BMW? | ||
| Swampy |
Don't just dump the air head, look at how many Blast owners were alienated recently. (Of course Ezblast went and bought a CR!) But real long term, drink the coolaide Buellers have been defending the faith for years and aren't quite ready to abandon the "Old" beliefs. The 1125 is what Japan should have been building, if they did, maybe there wouldn't be so much whining going on now.... OK..what was this thread about again? | ||
| Slinky |
Many current liquid cooled engines run many, many miles, with little to no maintenance. The air cooled simplicity/low maintenance thing only goes so far in my book. Don't get me wrong I love the TS engine, but people make it sound like any other engines are these things you constantly have to work on. Porsche also made HP and other engine improvements every model year. | ||
| F_skinner |
I disagree, the Uly would be a better bike with the 1125 power plant. I disagree, the Uly is the best all around bike I have ever owned. That power plant is perfect for that bike. A 1125ST is a different story but time will tell. Anyone care to make a wager? | ||
| Cyclonedon |
for the Ulysses, I feel that the Thunderstorm is the best engine for that bike. But if Buell was to make a TRUE SPORTS TOURING motorcycle with full fairing and a adjustable windshield, maybe the 1125 engine would be the better for that type of riding. Also the sports tourer should have shaft drive. This seems to be a market that Buell is completely missing out on! | ||
| Rightpecial |
I have to disagree with the notion that dropping the air cooled line would somehow help the company...I mean we're all here and unless we all ride an 1125 bike then a lot of us like the bikes the way they are. Now I wouldn't trade the thunderstorm in my Uly for anything even if I eventually add that much lusted after CR to the collection. They do clearly have a marketing problem if my own experiences are any indication since everyone I know asked me, "What is it," when I showed up with my Buell. Now they all love it, but they had no idea the company was even out there. | ||
| Firstbatch |
+1 Frank...I absolutely love the Uly power plant.... | ||
| Missin44 |
Well while I think there is a place for an air cooled motor, that does not mean that the 1203 is the best motor for the Uly. Time moves on, I firmly believe a newly engineered air cooled motor should be in the works. Not to say the Thunderstorm engine isn't a great motor, it is. however it's a motor that's 25 years old and has been pushed to what it is now, a great motor. But even great motors can be improved. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Buell shouldn't think they can rest on their laurels. No spark plug, two injector, dual fuel engine. One injector sprays diesel and the other gasoline. High compression ignites the diesel which in turns ignites the gasoline. Cool running, very high torque, very low emission, high efficiency engine. http://www.gizmag.com/diesel-spark-plug-gasoline/1 2484/ | ||
| Johnboy777 |
+1 Missin44 ... it's not that the Thunderstorm is a bad motor per se, but there's better, and the 1125 is it. Relegate the 1203 to some standard-ish specialty retro something-or-other...and let's move on, already. . | ||
| Hangetsu |
I know some other engines like that too. The Ducati 1000DS, Moto Guzzi - full line, and BMW Boxer twin; all engine designs 25 years old or older and I don't see a cry to dump any of those for a redesigned air cooled motor, or even in favor of some high output water cooled replacement. A motor is chosen to fit the job a bike is intended to do and the 1203 Thuinderstorm is perfectly suited to the Uly's purpose. It may not be the best motor for the Thunderbolt, but there is already a replacement for that - the 1125R. The Uly, on the other hand, is not a sport bike. It's a sporty touring bike and it's engine and overall performance is right in line with its competition; the 1200GS, the Multistrada, the Moto Guzzi Stelvio, etc. The Uly competes directly with these bikes and like them, it is speced with the right engine for the job; a torquey, powerful, and stone axe reliable air cooled twin. Want higher tech. and 140+ HP? There are other bikes out there for you. If you choose the wrong tool for the job you need to do, don't blame the tool for its deficiencies. Go get a different tool. (Message edited by Hangetsu on September 17, 2009) | ||
| F_skinner |
it's a motor that's 25 years old What motor is 25 years old? The Thunderstorm? | ||
| F_skinner |
Buell shouldn't think they can rest on their laurels. They have not rested in a while, they continue to make improvements to the "25 Year old Motor". | ||
| Bosh |
Hangetsu, Well said! I share your opinion. I think the Thunderstorm is the perfect engine for the 12X. The liquid cooled mill would ruin the character of the bike. | ||
| Froggy |
So does the RSS. | ||
| Pso |
I lkie the engine a great deal and I am also very impressed w/what Buell is doing to improve the 12x every year. I like the simplicity of working on it, I just wish I did not need to work on my 06 so much. Hope to upgrade to a 2010 or maybe 11 in the next year or two. | ||
| Blake |
Anyone who thinks that the current Buell Thunderstorm engine is 25 years old hasn't been paying attention. We now have DDFI-III, an O2 sensor for each cylinder, a completely new XBRR based oiling system, bigger, more durable crank pin allowing a new 7,100 rpm rev limit, and a plethora of other major modifications and improvements through the years. | ||
| Tginnh |
Good points. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""Anyone who thinks that the current Buell Thunderstorm engine is 25 years old hasn't been paying attention. We now have DDFI-III, an O2 sensor for each cylinder, a completely new XBRR based oiling system, bigger, more durable crank pin allowing a new 7,100 rpm rev limit, and a plethora of other major modifications and improvements through the years"" The same thing can be said about Joan Rivers. She's had a lot of improvements lately but it’s still Joan Rivers. These so-called improvements are simply band-aid patches to counter the power plant’s deficiencies. They're trying too hard to make a square peg fit the round hole. Engine technology has moved on and if Buell is a cutting edge race-inspired company (as they advertise), their engines should reflect that fact. Just my 2cents. . | ||
| Court |
It works splendidly. | ||
| Jim_williams |
the simplicity of this motor is part of what has pushed me to buy my new Buell this afternoon. I look forward to seeing how I feel about this "old" technology. After a BMW, with it's advanced braking system, that completely lost brakes twice (once in the rain, coasting through a red light!), I'm feeling like simplicity might be a good thing. Jeez, if half of what you folks rave about proves to be true, I'll be very happy with my decision! 8 hrs. and counting.... | ||
| Court |
It works splendidly. | ||
| Blake |
>>>These so-called improvements are simply band-aid patches to counter the power plant’s deficiencies. What deficiencies would those be? What improvement to any engine is not addressing some perceived deficiency? A band-aid patch is something superficial that doesn't last that is used to cover up a problem. Which improvements that I've named do you find are superficial and/or not durable? Use of the modifier "so-called" implies doubts about the honesty of a word's meaning, the word "improvements" in this case . Which "so-called" improvements are not true/honest improvements? >>>The same thing can be said about Joan Rivers. She's had a lot of improvements lately but it’s still Joan Rivers. Which improvements that I've listed are nothing but cosmetic crap? >>>They're trying too hard to make a square peg fit the round hole. The engine in my Ulysses fits the role of the bike perfectly for me. I wouldn't want it with another engine. >>>Engine technology has moved on and if Buell is a cutting edge race-inspired company (as they advertise), their engines should reflect that fact. I guess you missed some of the new Buell models introduced beginning with the 2008 model year. | ||
| Hangetsu |
As I said above, the same can be said for BMW, Ducati, Moto Guzzi, and I'm sure others, but their air cooled engines are still the motor or choice for the adventure touring class motorcycle (OK, Moto Guzzi has no other option). Anything wrong with 2 platforms? From what I've seen in the comments above, the people who ride the Uly as it was intended - adventure touring, long haul, two up, dirt road, etc. are the ones who appreciate and support the Thunderstorm engine. Most I see crying for an 1125 Uly are, for the most part the Sunday afternoon canyon carvers and as I see it, Buell already makes a bike for you - the 1125 CR and I'me sure there'll soon be more. So what's all the freak'n whining about? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""I guess you missed some of the new Buell models introduced beginning with the 2008 model year."" The 1125 is proof positive that even Buell was not satisfied with their own Thunderstorm - otherwise, why introduce the 1125. So apparently, Buell is well aware of the Thunderstorms deficiencies (i.e., limitations). My point is a simple one - extend the 1125 engine to the Ulysses, as well, and relegate the 1203 to retro bikes, for those die hard air-cooled fans.  just my 2cents.... . | ||
| Hangetsu |
I'd say the 1125 was developed to create a different CLASS of motorcycle, not to make up for the deficiencies of another. No manufactured will survive with a single platform. They develop a variety of engine platforms to suit different performance requirements. The Thunderstorm is no more antiquated or deficient than the BMW 1200 boxer and like the 1200 GS, the Uly is speced the way it should be. Other models will come along that will put the 1125 motor to use in the environments where it will excel. With your logic they might as well drop an LC8 in a Vespa. | ||
| Aptbldr |
I understood (Erik's garage video) the Thunderstorm engine was an interim compromise solution; resulting from H-D's V-rod priorities 'taking over' engine under development for Buell. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Not to put too fine a point on this, but the air-cooled motor in an XB was brought about because HD pulled Erik's water-cooled engine development, at the time - the 1203 was never intended to be in an XB. The air-cooled 1203 engine came about as an 'oh chit, now what do we do?' . | ||
| Atoms |
Most I see crying for an 1125 Uly are, for the most part the Sunday afternoon canyon carvers and as I see it, Buell already makes a bike for you - the 1125 CR and I'me sure there'll soon be more. So what's all the freak'n whining about? Well said Hangetsu! Some of the whiners might be commuters, who may have a legit gripe (heat, paint-shaker idle, off idle issues, roaring fan on parade duty/traffic jams) but they can also shut up and get an 1125 or something. Or better yet, get a place live within bicycle/walking/public transit distance of where they work. That way they can save the Uly for the purpose for which it was built. | ||
| Tginnh |
Dang, that was harsh. We're just talking motors here, right? |
