| Author | Message | ||
     Jlnance |
The best mileage I have ever gotten was with Chad. We both filled up at the same time, reset our mileage, and both were at 170 miles with the light not on. We ran hard twisties at high RPMs at or near the rev limiter. We were not running REALLY high speeds This mirrors my own experiences. You can flog the hell out of the bike, in the twisties, and get great mileage. Apparently it is wind resistance that determines your mileage. If you are running slow, you get great mileage, regardless of the RPM or acceleration of the engine. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
See I knew I was missing something.....air and oil cooled. I figured it would be harder on the engine, that seemed logical. But if speed was held constant airflow would be = cooling for both. I wonder how much the extra cooling from the oil offsets the extra heat from the higher RPMs? How people define lugging the motor also changes things. I commute to work everyday and theres no way I'm gonna run 4k+ RPMs from stoplight to stoplight. I keep it about 2500 to 3500 most of the time, and it sure doesn't feel like its lugging. | ||
| Debueller |
Quote by Tootal: The thunderstorm engine had two personalities. You could ride it at low rpm and use it's abundance of torque by short shifting and rolling on the throttle or you can open her up and feel that 5000 rpm hit in every gear, keeping it in that sweet spot. I have to agree completely with that one as I ride both ways depending on my mood, or company! Very well put. My riding style reflects this statement. IMO the Thunderstorm engine does not need to be flogged like a 600cc sportbike to run efficently. I think MPG has more to do with speed, wind resistance and riding style than RPM's. The Uly is a very versitale motorcycle, and the Thunderstorm engine lends itself very well to this purpose. Restricting one's riding style to just one type of riding (at either end of the "agressivness" scale) does not allow a rider to enjoy all the Uly is capable of. I appreciate the ability of my Uly to rail the twisties with my buddies, take a nice relaxing ride two-up with my girl, or anything in between. (Message edited by debueller on April 29, 2009) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I wonder how much the extra cooling from the oil offsets the extra heat from the higher RPMs? A significant amount. There are oil injectors that spray oil at the bottom side of the pistons to help cool the piston crown. Additionally, the "radiator" creates a significant amount of cooling of the oil. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Fatty is also forgetting to mention one thing about how we ride....we don't use the freakin' brakes. We attempt to ride "The Pace", which means you don't shoot for uber high speeds in the straights. You set a good speed...say 70 to 80 mph and you try to maintain that speed. Corners and straights....using minimal braking. Braking wastes kinetic energy by converting it to heat at the brake rotor. The less braking you do, the better your fuel mileage will be. Google search the term "hypermiling" and you will see one of the secrets is to stay off the brakes. The XB motor is fairly anemic at only 85hp to the ground (and I've seen them dyno with less) for a 500+lb bike with a 215lb rider wearing at least 25lbs of gear. If you want that power, you HAVE to rev the snot out of it (just like a 600) since peak power is reached right before redline. As for a picture of me riding my Ulysses.....here ya go:  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
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| Chadhargis |
Ah...a thing of beauty. When you gettin' another bike Fatty?? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Hell if I know.  Pining. Daily. | ||
| Bienhoabob |
 Not quite near the skill level of you guys, but I'm trying. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Sure missed you up in the mountains this past weekend. It was AWESOME up there. Except for getting popped doing 60 in a 35 while leaned over in a corner on 129 north of Suches. I guess that's one time I was glad the Uly motor was a bit weak...I was banging off the rev limiter but couldn't upshift...I was in a left hander.  (Message edited by chadhargis on April 29, 2009) | ||
| Thunderbox |
I have to step in here because I am not in total agreement with everything that has been said. I confess to being a lugger for the majority of my riding. But lets get the lugging issue defined. I call it riding my bike at lower RPMs but not getting any jerkiness out of the drivetrain. I can say I have lugged every engine I have ever owned. At the age of 53 I have yet to damage any engine I have owned. I have never had an engine fail or be damaged other than that one time at band camp when a VW dropped a valve on me. My engines have never burned oil and my fuel economy typically is better than the manufacturers say I should get. My Uly has been flogged but not every ride. It uses no oil between changes and on the dyno, stock puts 85 HP and 74 lbs ft of torque to the rear wheel. It runs perfect and I don't notice the heat any more than on other bikes I have ridden or owned. It now has about 23000kms and I would rid it anywhere. Any engine will run hotter the more fuel it burns. The fuel is the cause of all engine heat even if some of it is indirect. Oil temps go up directly in relation to speed. The slower I drive the lower the oil temps become. I have an oil gauge and this is not fiction. The pistons in the Uly get plenty of oil spray from the con rod bearings (which are really bearings unlike most bikes) and from the spinning of the crank. The underside of the top of the pistons gets lots of oil from this action alone. Spinning the engine faster will cause more oil to spray up there but then the engine is firing much more quickly and thats why the oil gets hotter when you rid it faster. Buell in there wisdom of how heat is generated in an engine will cause a misfire (less fuel being burnt) to lower engine oil temps when needed. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Thunder, What you said basically follows my logic. faster RPM = more heat. I didn't think about the oil (just air) but even so it seems the engine should be hotter. It would be nice to see a line graph of RPM, Heat, Speed, and Oil Pressure to show how they relate to each other. My definition of "lugging the engine" is when the RPMs are so low the whole thing jerks and jumps (almost low enough to stall). Other than that its just running at various levels of rpms. Most of my driving is w/ a diesel and low RPMs seem more normal to me. So, when I'm pushing 4.5k+ RPMs on the bike it seems like I'm going to get a piston up the butt when the thing disintegrates. In know its not but my ears tell me that it is. Good power at the lower RPMs is actually one of the things that drew me to Buells. If I'm killing the motor by doing most of my driving in the 3k (+/-) range, I'm riding the wrong bike for the type of riding I normally do. And I hate to say that cause I love my Uly. When the time is right I love to run hard and go with the higher RPMs (4.5k+)and squeeze out every last bit of oomph, but thats not my normal style. | ||
| Thunderbox |
I find the 3k lots of RPM for the Uly. I ride mine as slow as 2500 but mostly in the 2500 to 4000 rpm range. If the engine is bucking and jerking that is not lugging that is toooooooo low an RPM simple as that. There is nothing wrong with riding the Uly in the 3000 RPM range | ||
| Osup |
 I too aspire to reach the elite status of "Knee dragger". | ||
| Tginnh |
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| Etennuly |
Ft_b, that is weird that your best mileage was riding with Chad. The worst mileage I have ever recorded on my Uly was riding with Chad. Just over 41 mpg. Remember 116? Hmmmmm.....What do you think of that? The scoot you, Brad, and I did over the Cherohala on our way to MBIV, was a sweet trip into darkness and temperature droppage. With all the track days you guys have done I doubt I could keep up anymore. But it sure would be fun trying! You need a bike. We all need to ride. This past twelve months has sucked the big one.  (Message edited by etennuly on April 29, 2009) | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Here I am before one of my big jumps. Hell yeah it takes skill - and nerves of steel, too!  | ||
| Chadhargis |
I remember that 116 ride. Wasn't that the day it was all muddy and messed up. The pace was pretty sedate that day. You should have been with us in the mountains this past weekend. Whoa boy, we blistered a few of those roads. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You need a bike. We all need to ride. Truer word have never been spoken. I have the motorcycle equivalent of "chowder build-up". | ||
| M2nc |
I rode to work the last two day and lugged it to work. Clutch out at 1800rpm and shift before 3500rpm. The bike has enough torque at the range to pull away from traffic. Best mileage and coolest running - 55-60mph in fifth gear at 2800rpm. 62.5mpg | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
One of the caveats to the "lugging" question is in how and where you are lugging it. Carlos, what you describe is "Granny Shifting". If you are on relatively flat ground will small throttle entries at slower speeds, sure "lugging" will provide cool low fuel consumption runs. If you run in lower RPMs and do full throttle roll-ons straining the bike up hills, the bike will run hotter and get poorer mileage. | ||
| Growl |
I love cruising at low rpms (2800-3200) WITH AN OCCASIONAL BLAST I was wondering... would a stock sportster (heavier than Buell) flywheel fit? Might make the Uly have better low rpm manners | ||
| Pauley2000 |
80/20 rule. | ||
| Ulyranger |
I think the "lugging" thing is getting confused a bit, but all the right info is here between the lines of many posts. Running in low rpms is absolutely fine as long as the rpms/power output matches the load. The motor, any motor, will let you know in no uncertain terms if you are punishing it......lag, bucking, sputters, etc.. Going from 2k to WOT under load is probably not a good thing for the Uly lump. A gradual roll on is perfectly fine IMO. I short shift all the time in low load situations where I don't need/want lots of speed and/or noise, like in town. Not a problem. I think the bigger issue that has been said, if not exactly spelled out, is to match the rpms, power output to the required load on the engine. Lugging as I understand it is not just running a motor at lower rpms but overloading an engine in the lower end of it's power band. You can run down low, just don't ask the motor do as much work as you would when it's spinning in it's happy zone. This goes for diesel and industrial motors too. I am not an expert and did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night so take it for what it's worth.............. It seems as though there are many different riding styles and uses for the Uly tool here and the good thing is that it does all this stuff very well. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Lugging as I understand it is not just running a motor at lower rpms but overloading an engine in the lower end of it's power band. Zactly! | ||
| Chadhargis |
Since my bike shakes like a dog crapping a peach seed at anything under 3000rpm....It's not hard for me to keep the rpms up. Below 3000rpm, I the bike shakes so much that the mirrors move out of adjustment. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Ok, I understand now (I'm a little slow sometimes) and agree..... I always downshift to get the RPMs up before taking off when I'm "just cruising" around town, thus not "lugging" the engine. | ||
| Thunderbox |
Well if we use that definition for a lugger I am a lugger no more. I am a lowger because I use lower RPMs. | ||
| Hangetsu |
And there is nothing wrong with that. It's called normal riding. The Uly, like any bike for that matter, is transportation after all, transportation with a fun factor. There is no need or sense in wringing its neck at all times. (Message edited by Hangetsu on April 30, 2009) | ||
| M2nc |
The bike shakes under 3K, so what. The bike pulls away from traffic. If you are pulling up a hill or give the bike a lot of throttle with the motor at lower rpms then it will shake a lot more. I can tell you I can ride 100 miles and never rev over 3500 rpms. Then again when I want to get going, I have no problem taking it to the rev limiter. As for the 1125 motor, I finally had the opportunity to ride the R and CR 20 miles each back to back. You can ride the bikes at public road speeds, but you have to be 1K rpm higher. The motor was just useless under 3K rpms but purred like a kitten at 4K rpm. I rode behind an orange Uly who opened it up. I let him pull a couple of bike lengths then popped the top on the CR. Pulled up beside him like he was braking. That CR really has a bunch of power but I am still not sold its the right motor for a Uly. Aboard both the R & CR, I opened the bikes up in second gear and in a few seconds I was running 30mph over the speed limit. The motor requires more maintenance, gets worse mileage and has a distinct buzz to the 1203 thump. Did I mention I love the looks of the CR and felt at home on it. |
