| Author | Message | ||
     Treadmarks |
I ran across a case of bearings that were destined for the dumpster. They are FAG 6006.2RSR.T.C3, 1K 039019, Made in Germany. Please tell me these will work for the rear wheel bearings. The packing slip indicates they have been here in storage for 12 years but each bearing is sealed in plastic. I can sacrifice one to check the grease type and condition if necessary. I am hoping these are good quality bearings made before the NAFTA days. I am asking because in all the bearing threads no one has mentioned FAG bearings.  | ||
| Froggy |
So easy for me to post something here and get banned, I will let Ft_bstrd do it!  | ||
| Treadmarks |
I am shocked that he hasn't already posted.... Here fatty fatty fatty   (Message edited by treadmarks on July 24, 2008) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Treadmarks- I think those are the right bearings. The "6006", "2RS" and "C3" are the important parts of the number; not sure what all that other stuff is. So you think FB will make some cigarette jokes, eh?  | ||
| Treadmarks |
It's a don't ask, don't tell situation.  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Tread, Just exactly "who" conveniently destined those things to the dumpster??? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
 | ||
| Treadmarks |
Thanks JB. Wonder what the "T" means? | ||
| Treadmarks |
I keep getting Bently/BMW/Audi driveshaft carrier bearing when I search. (Message edited by treadmarks on July 24, 2008) | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Tread, You might want to contact Applied. Service Center (closest to Miami): Pompano Beach Location # 0214 3030 N Andrews Ave Pompano Beach, FL 33064-2114 PH: (954) 974-8000 FAX: (954) 974-7966 Email: sc0214@applied.com --OR-- Main (Corp) Office: Applied Industrial Technologies Corporate Headquarters One Applied Plaza Cleveland, OH 44115 216-426-4000 appliedindustrial@applied.com Website: http://web.applied.com/ Hope this helps, John . (Message edited by johnboy777 on July 24, 2008) | ||
| Treadmarks |
Allied said they would call me right back. Since the only 3 google hits on this part number turned up as a driveshaft carrier bearing for autos, wonder if it means high temp use? | ||
| Treadmarks |
Just exactly "who" conveniently destined those things to the dumpster??? EG, You would be shocked how much stuff goes in the dumpster when the medical device industry is in the tank and all of our manufacturing is going to mexico and PR. In the last 2 years we have closed 8 buildings and went from 4000 to about 600. No problem finding a parking space now!  I just happened to see the 6006 part. Too bad I couldn't see any 6005s. (Message edited by treadmarks on July 24, 2008) | ||
| Elf |
"T" might stand for 'Teflon'. Some bearings have Teflon or Teflon coated seals. See what the Applied rep says. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Temp range on the SKF bearing I purchased is 284 deg. (ambient temp) Max. I was told that 'RS' stood for 'rubber seal' LINK (SKF 6006 2RSJEM) http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catal og.do?e=10&s=6366801 Fag Link Below....> (Message edited by johnboy777 on July 24, 2008) | ||
| Johnboy777 |
LINK (FAG 6006.2RSR.C3) http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catal og.do?e=10&s=5249949 | ||
| Treadmarks |
Motorcycle bearings, understanding From sportbikes.com Every where you look on a motorcycle there is a bearing. There are bearings in the engine, transmission, chassis, wheels, and control pivots. As these bearings degrade, a motorcycle looses its “new” feeling. Replacement of these bearings can help restore a bike to as delivered condition. Nearly all of the rolling element bearings used on a motorcycle are standard industrial sizes that are available from industrial supply houses. Generally the OEMs simply have the bearing manufacture put a standard bearing in a box with their logo on it and mark it up. Purchasing bearings at a local industrial supply house has two distinct advantages. First you will pay a much lower the price and second it will very likely be in stock. Bearings can be divided into two large groups, rolling element bearings and plain bearings. Rolling element bearings contain and inner and outer rings or races with either balls or rollers in between. Most rolling element bearings also have a cage to hold the rolling elements in position and reduce friction. The second group of bearing is plain bearings. These bearings range from the pivot points on control levers and simple bushings used on old machines to the complex hydrodynamic bearings used in most 4 stroke engines. This discussion will be limited to rolling element bearings. Rolling element bearings are defined using two large distinctions. First, bearings are defined by the type of rolling element. Two types of rolling elements exist, ball and roller. Ball bearings have small balls between the inner and outer races providing the rolling action. While roller bearings have a cylindrical or conical shaped rollers to provide the rolling action between the inner and outer races. Roller bearings have a greater load capacity, and deflect less, but have greater start up friction then an equivalent sized ball bearing. Bearings are further defined by the loads they are designed to support. In engineering speak loads are defined as vectors. This is a fancy way of saying that loads have both a magnitude and direction. Every bearing load can be broken down into radial and axial components. A radial load component acts from the center of a shaft outward like a spoke. An axial or thrust load component acts in a direction parallel to the center of the shaft. Bearings designed to handle axial loads only are called thrust bearings. Other bearings are called radial bearings. Depending on the design a radial bearing can handle either a mixture of radial and thrust loads or radial loads only. Perhaps the most common bearing on a motorcycle is the deep groove ball bearing. These bearings are used for wheel, crankshaft, and transmission bearings. This bearing type consists of an inner and outer ring with deep grooves. The balls ride in these deep grooves and are separated by a cage. Deep groove bearings are capable of high speeds and will support both radial and thrust loads in both directions. Another common type of ball bearing that is used on motorcycles is the angular contact bearing. In this bearing the inner and outer races are shaped such that a line drawn from the contact points of the balls on the inner and outer race would be at and angle from the radial direction. Standard angular contact bearings come in contact angles of 15, 25, 30, and 40. The greater the angle the more axial load and less radial load the bearing will support. Angular contact bearings will support slightly more load then a deep groove ball bearing, are highly accurate, and have very low friction. The drawback is angular contact bearings can only resist axial loads in one direction, and must be used in preloaded opposing sets. A common application of angular contact bearings is the steering head bearings. Tapered roller bearings are another common steering head bearing. As mentioned early tapered roller bearings have much greater stiffness, load carrying ability and friction when compared with an equal sized angular contact ball bearing. In years past it was a hot upgrade to discard the stock ball bearings and install a tapered roller bearing. Now all the latest crop of superbikes seem to have angular contact ball bearings while dirt bikes seem to have tapered roller bearings per my unscientific survey. It seems the sport bikes are going for less friction while the harsh world of dirt bikes calls for the more durable tapered roller bearing. Like angular contact bearings, tapered roller bearings must be used in preloaded sets. Needle roller bearings are a special type of cylindrical roller bearings that have long slender rollers. These bearings can support large radial loads, but cannot support axial loads. The advantage of the needle roller bearing is the small outside diameter relative to the bearing inside diameter to support a given load. These bearings are ideal for use in applications where space is limited such as suspension linkages, swingarms and connecting rods. Most bearing use a standardize ISO bearing number for identification and cross reference between manufacturers. Some tapered roller bearings use a different English based numbering system. What you need to do is find the number and manufacturer stamped on the side of the bearing to order the correct replacement. Deep groove ball bearings have a four digit code. The first digit is always a six (6). This defines the bearing as a deep groove bearing. The second digit is an OD sizing code and the last two digits define the ID. 1 – 9 = 1- 9 mm bore (note special case with only one digit) 00 = 10 mm bore 01 = 12 mm bore 02 = 15 mm bore 03 = 17 mm bore 04 = 20 mm bore >04 = last digits multiplied by 5 mm. Example 06 would have a bore of 30 mm. A special exception exist when a / proceeds the last two digits. For these bearings the last digits are the bore size. Example /22 has a 22 mm bore. In addition to the size of the bearing, other critical information needs to be defined. These codes are not standard and can really only be decoded by someone equipped with cross-reference manuals. My intention in the following paragraphs in not to make you capable of breaking these bearing codes, but to educate you as to what is important and what to look for when purchasing bearings. Many, but not all, bearings have either shields or seals to protect the bearing and lubricant from dirt and moisture. A shield is a stamped metal part that is fixed to the outside diameter of the bearing and just clears the inner ring. The result is a very small clearance between the shield and the inner ring, thus greatly reducing the influx of foreign matter into the bearing. Because the shield does not actually contact the inner ring, there is no increase in friction. A bearing can have a shield on neither, one or both sides. Both NTN and NSK are Japanese bearing companies that supply bearings to the motorcycle industry. Both use the code Z after the bearing number to define a shield, with ZZ in the part number defining a double shield. It should not be assumed that a bearing from another company would use the same code. Seals look very similar to the shield. Seals are constructed from synthetic rubber molded to a stamped metal part. Seals come in two basic flavors, non-contact and contact. Non-contact seals are just that. There is no contact between the seal and inner ring. The advantage of a seal over a shield is that the flexibility of the rubber allows an arrangement called a labyrinth seal to be assembled. While not actually contacting this seal arrangement forces any material to travel through a maze before it can enter the bearing. This difficult path made is more challenging by the barrier formed by the grease blocking the way. For ultimate protection of the bearing from dirt and moisture, a contact seal is used. In a contact seal, the seal in contacts the inner race of the bearing. This seal in much like the oil seals used on the output shaft of the transmission. This type of seal does have more friction and a lower maximum speed, but provides the most protection from the environment. An example I found in my garage is an NTN 6004 removed from some unknown Japanese motorcycle. This is a deep groove bearing, OD code 0 and a 20 mm ID. The bearing is open without shields or seals. NTN is a Japanese bearing manufacturer that is commonly used by OEMs. In the ISO system tapered roller bearings have a three as the first digit followed by a OD code digit and a width code digit followed by a two digit ID bore code identical to the one used for deep groove bearings. An example I found in my garage is a 32005JR-X1 made in Japan by a company called Koyo. In this example the 3 indicates that it is a tapered roller bearing width code 2, OD code O and an ID of 25 mm. The JR-X1 is some internal Koyo designation that would require either a Koyo catalog or a cross-reference manual to decipher. Tapered roller bearings often use an English numbering system similar to the ISO system. Just have the numbers and you will be able to find a replacement. Needle roller bearings follow the same format but have a “NA” as the first character in the code. Some very important points to make are that not all bearings used by the motorcycle industry are standard sizes. In particular the needle bearings used on Yamaha sportbikes suspension links are not a standard size and only available from Yamaha. Also I cannot find a standard replacement for the angular contact steering head bearings. As I have an extensive library of bearing manuals and catalogs I can only conclude that these are unique to the motorcycle industry as well. Bearings are graded on two scales of increasing precision, ABEC and ISO class. Some people believe that high precision bearings produce less friction. This is not true. High accuracy bearings are very expensive and have less radial and axial run out. For wheel bearings it is a waste, but is may help on a crank bearing. Only dyno testing will tell. When you order bearings give the person on the other end of the phone all the information on the bearing. This will include the manufacturer, ISO code and any manufacturer specific codes. Also note any special features such as retaining clip grooves. When ordering just read the number to the sales clerk as it is unlikely they will have a full understanding of the code and you may just confuse them. Finally, I would recommend you purchase only bearings produced in Japan, USA or Western Europe. The other stuff may be good, but it may not. Some very good bearing companies include SKF, Barden, Kayo, NSK, NTN, FAG, INA, Torrington and Timken. You will get what you pay for. Ray Engelhardt | ||
| Johnboy777 |
'T' stands for tits ... like 'T and A' . | ||
| Treadmarks |
haha u too funny gringo. I have two stories. Allied said the T code is not listed but probably stands for TVH. Something to do with the cage construction. The old fartknocker in the stockroom that ordered the bearings (long time ago) said that "T stands for Treated, as in heat treated you dumbazz". (Message edited by treadmarks on July 24, 2008) | ||
| Elf |
Johnboy, you are correct. 2RS = 2 Rubber Seals Maybe a different cage material? Different lubrication? Being that this was used for medical equipment, this might be the case. A 'special construction' kind of deal... I'm curious now. The FAG site has nothing on the 'T' designation, and a call to our local bearing supply house turned up nothing. Treadmarks, can you open one up and take a look? | ||
| Treadmarks |
From a NTN site: 3.3 Long-life bearings (TMB/TAB bearings) Boundary dimensions of long-life bearings are the those of standard deep groove ball bearings, but the bearings have undergone special heat treatment that considerably extends wear life. These bearings are especially effective in countering reduced wear life due to the effects of infiltration by other foreign matter. Features are as follows: Rated load is the same as standard bearings, characteristics factor is a2 = 2.2 for TMB bearings = 3.6 for TAB. TMB 62 series bearings can be used in place standard 63 series bearings enabling lighter weight, more compact designs Greater resistance to reduced wear life due to by dust and other foreign matter. | ||
| Treadmarks |
More from allied. 6006 = size 2RSR = 2 lip seals T = synthetic cage material C3 = over clearance | ||
| Neurorider |
Wasn't there something pending from Buell about a wheel bearing upgrade? I seem to recall reading a post about that after the homecoming. Mine still seem OK, but I hope Buell or you guys figure out an upgrade! keep at it, lurkers are rooting for you  Treadmarks, that's a great article about bearings. I think my knowledge of bearings just increased exponentially, which is a good thing since they keep us rolling down the road... doc | ||
| Crusty |
Abe Askenazi told me at Homecoming that there was an upgraded bearing that should be available by the end of this month, if it isn't already. He said that water damage was the cause of the bearing failures that they investigated, and that water was getting into the bearings through damaged/inadequate seals. He seemed pretty positive that the upgraded bearing would end the issue. I believe him. | ||
| Pso |
Thanks to both treadmarks and crusty for relevant info. Always like to stay informed. | ||
| Treadmarks |
So I did front and rear bearings this weekend. Pulled out 4 made in Taiwan bearings and installed German FAGs in the rear and SKFs from Argentina in the front. Water killed my rear bearings. I am so glad I found it when I did. When I removed the axle, water came running out. The entire hub area was full of water. Once the axle was out, I could not turn the bearings by hand.  Here is a shot of water still in the hub after I dumped most of it out.   After cleaning up the wheel, I decided to do something to eliminate water from becoming trapped in the hub in the future. Was it condensation or washing? Who cares, as long as it doesn't happen again.  All cleaned up with two opposed weep holes located in the deepest part of the hub (when vertical). Front bearings were in good shape. Wonder why the front wheel has holes in it, but the rear does not. Buell Engineering again I suspect. A bearing should not have to remain submerged and risk a seal leaking from the inside. (Message edited by treadmarks on July 28, 2008) | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Great write up Tread... i like the idea of the weep holes, too. . | ||
| Red_chili |
Seems like although water could get IN the weep holes, a ride would sling it out. "But honey, I HAVE to go riding to clear the rear wheel of water! Those bearings are expensive, and if they failed you would have to drop what you are doing and come get me..." Well... in THEORY it would work... | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""Seems like although water could get IN the weep holes, a ride would sling it out."" Hey Red, What gets me, is how the water gets in there in the 1st place. John | ||
| Froggy |
Bad seals. The fix should be out soon. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Condensation, I think. The water that poured out from the hub was clear and clean. I never pressure wash or spray directly around my axle because I don't want to wash off the anti-sieze. I rode through some mud holes, but none deep or long enough to allow it to reach the bearings. | ||
| Satori |
Froggy What kind of fix do you mean? Thanks |
