| Author | Message | ||
     Johnboy777 |
Even though I have Xopti's EEPROM (which has not yet been installed), i wanted to try Treadmarks Square Idle first, so that i could see if it would work on my completely stock '07 Uly. To start with, my bike had been set up per the service manual's specs, and ended up with an idle of around 1,100 -1,150+ that shook the bike like crazy, and seemed as if it just wasn't right somehow. It ran in fuel map cells 15/20 TPS and 1000/1350 RPM at idle - these cells are one row higher and one row to the right of Treadmarks Square Idle cells. The first thing i did was download my stock map to ECMspy, then cut a square idle map (per Treadmarks example in another post) ... but instead, my map had the front cells at 73 (X4) and the rear cells at 68 (X4). i burned the map, then re-set the TPS, but not the AFV (which was at 105 when i started). I had ridden the bike prior for half an hour or so and it was completely warmed up when i started. After re-setting the TPS, i wound in the idle cable per Steve Turnbul's ECMspy Tuning guide...("Wind in the idle adjust screw until the TPS is set to approx 4.6 degrees or 5.1% This should be approximately correct for tick over."). Having done just that, after adding TM's square idle, i fired it up ....it idled at around 950-1000 and filled the lower 4 cells perfectly. Damn, it sounded so sweet, nice and steady, with non of that crazy bouncing back and forth chop during idle that it used to have. Another thing i noticed after taking it for a drive and doing the steady 3,500 RPM for 5 miles or so, was that it would fall back to idle very quickly, where before, it took the engine a lot longer to get back to idle after the throttle was closed. Also it'll come off idle smoother in 1st gear (slow roll on, from idle) at slower speeds...very cool. Its a really great mod ... unbelievably easy, as well. Thanks TM John BTW, here are the four cells in question, from a prior post by Treadmarks - thought it might help clarify things a little:  (Message edited by johnboy777 on March 17, 2008) | ||
| Treadmarks |
Way to go JB. Great post.  | ||
| Glenn |
Great instructions JohnBoy! | ||
| Uly1080 |
+1 (again). Treadmark's Square Idle rocks!  | ||
| Johnboy777 |
"Great instructions JohnBoy!" ... praise ye not me, for verily verily i say unto thee, it is not me but he, the one they call Treadmarks, that has shown us the way of the 'Square Idle'.  . | ||
| Daveymac |
So would this be correct for 07 stock map? front http://daveymac.smugmug.com/photos/267308687_Hw7qa -M.jpg rear http://DaveyMac.smugmug.com/photos/267308678_hbZWQ -M.jpg | ||
| Johnboy777 |
. FRONT (Daveymac photo)  REAR(Daveymac photo)  Yeah, that's it... then bring your idle down (if need be) to run in those cells after you burn the map in and re-set the TPS. After i wound out the idle cable, and re-set the TPS, i used Steve Turnbul's ECMspy Tuning guide which stated...("Wind in the idle adjust screw until the TPS is set to approx 4.6 degrees or 5.1% This should be approximately correct for tick over."). After setting the TPS (and thereby the idle)accordingly, everything was right on the money. But you may have to adjust the idle either way. BTW, How do you capture screen images in .jpg ??? . (Message edited by johnboy777 on March 18, 2008) | ||
| Daveymac |
BTW, How do you capture screen images in .jpg ??? SnagIt http://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.asp Works Great | ||
| Rotorhead |
Any one here going to MBV? I'd like to get a hold of this mod in my extra stock ECM. I have the race ECM installed but would bring the additional ECM to play with and maybe loan out to others that want to play with this mod before making the mod for good. Just offering up a loaner ECM if anyone is willing to load it up with a Map for other to try. I don't have a the cable to load it myself or i would offer the whole thing myself for others to try before they "buy" this mod. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
"...that want to play with this mod before making the mod for good." Hey Rotorhead, The great thing about this fuel map mod to the stock ECM, or even burning a new EEPROM, for that matter, is that these mods can be put back to stock in a few minutes. You will (should) always maintain or save your stock fuel maps or stock EEPROM to your computer, or burn a CD as i have done. All that is needed is to buy a cable from Packdog (great guy BTW) and download the ECMspy software and drivers and you are good to go. I think that's it ...right? Oh yeah the tuning guide: http://xoptiinside.com/BuellTuningGuideEnglish.pdf Here's a great site that belongs to Mike: http://www.xoptiinside.com/home . | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Daveymac ..thanks, got it. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Did you also adjust the timing? I have a ECMSpy cable coming, and I am familiar with how to reset the TPS. If I don't have to fool with timing, then it's as easy as putting 72 in the front map and 68 in the rear map, then resettign the TPS and you're done? Is that right? | ||
| Treadmarks |
Our timing should always be set straight up (TDC) behind the timing cover. This can be verified and/or adjusted to TDC if necessary using ecmspy. Let your tuners adjust the timing through EEPROM parameters to match their fuel maps. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Treadmarks, Do you know any of the particulars on how Mike sets up the timing with his EEPROM? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
One of things i did last night after loading in the Square Idle map, was to create a new map that had the Square Idle and smoothed out a few cells within the 'Pulling Away' zone (see Zone Map below). I did this beacuse A., there seemed to be some odd values in a few of these cells (like within the 4-cell idle group), and B., to try to figure out if this would help me when 'Pulling Away' - this is where historically i had coughs, sneezes, and hiccups (gladly, no constipation though).... also, i only added-to, never did i lessen any of the cell values. so that worst case, it will only run a little too rich. Has anyone else adjusted any cells in the 'Pulling Away' zone ??? ECMspy TUNING GUIDE Zone Map  MY FRONT MAP  MY REAR MAP  (Message edited by johnboy777 on March 18, 2008) | ||
| Id073897 |
You pull away with 40-70 TPS 8bit? I can't believe that. Show me your ti^h^h logs. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Hi Gunter, Sorry, i don't follow you. The Zone Map is from Steve's ECMspy Tuning Guide What do you mean by "Show me your ti^h^h logs." Thanks, John . | ||
| Treadmarks |
JB, I am not sure what Mike does with the EEPROM, never really gave it much thought. As long as his package delivers the power (which it does btw) then thats one less thing that I have to learn. My brain only has 256k, and today 255k is all used up. Yes I have adjusted the pull away zone and closed throttle over run to smooth things out and eliminate the popping when I chop throttle. Both adjustments went well, but was nothing compared to the Xopti EEPROM mod. I think the fuel maps, timing, and all the other eeprom mods should work together to produce the desired results, and since I don't have that particular skill set-I ain't messing with it.  I wouldn't stray to far form a known good combination when changing the fuel map values. Small changes, then analyze the results. It is way easy to get carried away with ecmspy. It sure is fun tho...  | ||
| Johnboy777 |
"I wouldn't stray to far form a known good combination when changing the fuel map values. Small changes, then analyze the results. It is way easy to get carried away with ecmspy." Good advice, TM. BTW, i just did a cold weather start up test when i got home from work, its 40deg. here right now, and when i set up the bike with the new fuel maps yesterday, it was 50deg or so, the bike was all warmed up and ran beautifully. Well, when i started it, it would not hold an idle on cold start up, without cracking the throttle slightly to get the revs up, so my first thought was to increase my square idle from 73F/68R to 75F/70R and try that out - make some small changes, and re-test....back to the lab. John. . (Message edited by johnboy777 on March 18, 2008) | ||
| Uly1080 |
Hey Treadmarks, does the Xopti EEPROM mod replace the American Sport Bike map, or use as a "baseline"? | ||
| Treadmarks |
Finally got a chance to hook up the wife's laptop to the bike and check everything out since the xopti mod a month ago. Sq. Idle is 76F/71R @ 900 rpm with 4.3% TPS and an AFV of 99% and got 52 mpg as a daily driver. Edited to add mpg figures, as I tried to take it easy for one tank and filled up this morning. (Message edited by treadmarks on March 19, 2008) | ||
| Treadmarks |
Hey Treadmarks, does the Xopti EEPROM mod replace the American Sport Bike map, or use as a "baseline"? Hi Josh, The Xopti mod replaces everything. They both have their place. For example, I ran an American Sport Bike map for my 1250 when I built it last year. It is a strong map that is built with lots of dyno time using OEM direct link software. I bought the key and map and Al was kind enough to install a the map onto my ECM that I mailed to him. I also bought the VDSTS cable dongle thingie to do TPS resets and check my AFV. The bike ran great, no pinging, but it did have slight popping when I chopped the throttle. While on vacation with this map I got from 50-65 mph, two up fully loaded. I did have some connectivity issues with the cable and dongle assembly, Al provided excellent support for his product but I just gave up on it when ecmspy became available. Now when Mike offered to build me an eeprom mod, I had the opportunity to discuss the "character flaws" about the Buells. I wanted timing and fuel changes, enhanced accelerator pump like function, no decell popping, very solid idle, lower operating temps through fuel control at idle, I wanted to take advantage of the ported heads with ram air and free flowing exhaust, and also increase soft/hard rev limit function. With Xopti, I had all of these options in the beginning without having to learn a thing. | ||
| Uly1080 |
Got it, thanks.  | ||
| Johnboy777 |
TM: "Finally got a chance to hook up the wife's laptop to the bike and check everything out since the xopti mod a month ago. Sq. Idle is 76F/71R @ 900 rpm with 4.3% TPS and an AFV of 99% and got 52 mpg as a daily driver." Thanks for the info Treadmarks, even though mine's stock, it'll give me a place to start when I install my Xopti EEPROM this weekend. . | ||
| Uly1080 |
I've been in the garage all morning playing with the idle. I've averaged, calculated, shifted again, little change here, tweak there. I decided to just plug in exactly the values TM has above and BAM...perfect 900 idle, sweet sound, sweet spot of the map. Not sure it'll work like that for everyone as I have an American Sport Bike remapped ECM, so be careful. Take Baby Steps (like Bob Wiley). JB-looking forward to hearing how the XOPTI works out for your bike. Tread, you the man. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Hey Uly1080, Yeah, the main difference here is that mine is all stock.... so we'll see what happens after I install the Xopti. EDIT: BTW, just a quick update on my square idle progress, so far. the other day i loaded in a square idle of 73F/68R after having warmed up the engine. it made a big difference and the bike ran and idled great. Then last night i tried a cold start test and the bike would not hold an idle without extra throttle input, so i fattened up the square idle to 75F/70R, burned in the map reset the TPS and put it away. Today i came home for lunch and fired it up cold ... much better cold start with no extra throttle needed... just those few pts. (going from 73F/68R to 75F/70R) made a big difference... and it held an idle @ 900-1000. I think i'll bump it just an extra point to match TM's at 76F/71R, and leave it there for now. fun stuff...  . (Message edited by johnboy777 on March 19, 2008) | ||
| Id073897 |
Hi Gunter, Sorry, i don't follow you. You wrote: smoothed out a few cells within the 'Pulling Away' zone (see Zone Map below). I did this beacuse A., there seemed to be some odd values in a few of these cells (like within the 4-cell idle group), and B., to try to figure out if this would help me when 'Pulling Away' - this is where historically i had coughs, sneezes, and hiccups So you really do use this region? RPM and TPS just above idle? For driving? Not only reving when waiting a the red light? Show me your logs! I would like to see that. When I look at my own logs, then even when driving in the garage I get much higher revs. So I could change as much as I would, but never will notice anything. Punching new numbers into the map is great, but not helpfull at all if you never enter the region just changed. Changing bins because they seem odd isn't a good approach either. Mixture might be odd, for several reasons. So you added fuel to some cells without knowing if it's necessary to do that. Or do you know? Show me your logs! To cut a long story short: changing without logging is by no means the right way to proceed. Just reading the guide and looking at the map is not enough. You need to know what's going on inside the engine to come to the right decisions. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Gunter, Many thanks for taking the time to explain. Seems a need to start logging, as i move forward with this. By-the-way, specifically, what areas of the map are used for pulling away under load. John. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
FWIW, I came home for lunch and since the sun was shinning here, which is rare, and I was having a slow day today, I decided to bump the square idle up a point to TM's 76F/71R, re-set the TPS and ride down to the Donut Factory in East Palestine, Ohio for lunch - the ride down Rt. 170 south is a great motorcycle road and the temp was low 40's ... a little chilly, but not bad, really. TM's 76F/71R Square Idle worked great from cold start through warm up ... very smooth. I had started lower with my square idle, because i thought that with my stock configuration, i just might need less of a fat square ... W-R-O-N-G. TM's set up has worked the best so far. Overall, i'm a very happy camper. . | ||
| Id073897 |
Idle is in closed loop. Regards, Gunter |
