| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
Treadmarks, What do you think of that belt tensioner you've installed? I know that Buell's official stance is that it's snake-oil but I think it would be beneficial to the belt and the bearings. Does it make for a smoother, less jerky ride? The folks that have them, that I've read about, seem like believers. Is it worth the moola? | ||
| Prowler |
I'm wondering the same thing. Was going to be my next purchase. | ||
| Treadmarks |
I can feel a difference. Seems to make the bike feel lighter than it is (to me). I ride with my suspension set loose. With the stock idler, I could feel the tightness towards the end of swing arm travel...when it was under heavy torque load. (Squatting) With the springy thingy the bike squats quicker, wheelies easier....just seems a little more loose. It is adjustable, so if it is not tight enough for you just jack up the preload a bit. I have about 10k miles on my springy thingy without any issues. I can't remember my bike being that jerky to begin with, so I'm probably not much help there. Is it worth the moola??? It is expensive, thats for sure. I think having it on the Uly will help belt and bearing life, while helping me grin as well. So for me, it's worth it. | ||
| Harleychanic |
Who makes it? | ||
| Dio |
And does it replace the stock tensioner? | ||
| Treadmarks |
From Trojan's website: The stock Buell belt tensioner is designed to keep the belt under constant tension, except it doesn’t! When the suspension is completely unloaded, such as when pulling stoppies or even braking hard, the tension is increased to an alarming degree, which can actually damage belts, wheel bearings and pulley bearings. This spring loaded item is designed to maintain a tension of 10.5kg regardless and will help lengthen belt and bearing life. Extensively tested in competition this is a must have accessory. Utilises stock tensioner wheel.   | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Treadmarks, To release the belt tension on this thing during a wheel removal, how do you do it? Another thing, why Buell believes that all that tension load on the bearings is no big deal seems puzzling to me. (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on March 04, 2008) | ||
| Treadmarks |
I tighten the adjuster nut 1.5 turns to ride, and just back it off to remove the belt. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
That seems way easier than the stock method. I've read the Anonymous VS Trojan postings on this subject. Everyone that's spoken up about having this device has only praise for it. How can minimizing "shock load" on the belt be anything other than good. | ||
| Windrider |
EGlider, The Buell engineers think that the stock system is better. According to Buell, "Typical spring mounted idlers were jerked around during hard shifts and downshifts; adding enough spring rate to overcome this would cause undue forces to be pushed into the belt. " Here is the official Buell line: http://buell.com/en_us/buell_way/buelltech/pdf_111 2_2004.pdf http://buell.com/en_us/buell_way/buell_on_buell/ra dicalprinciples.asp Anyway that you look at there has to be a substantial force on the wheel bearings to keep the belt taut. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Windrider, Thanks. With 10,000 miles on Treadmarks, you'd then think the belt would of snapped by now. Maybe the stock pressure is a bit much. | ||
| Adrian_8 |
I would think this belt tensioner would allow the rear suspension to work more freely and put less stress on the belt and countershaft sprocket shaft. All motorcycles run some chain slack depending on the amount of travel in the suspension..(except the new BMW 450). The belt is extremely tight but so are Harley Davidsons. With this tensioner you might get away with somewhere between 30-40 lbs on the axle nut thus less tress on the bearings...Been pondering....Does Buell know best or is the stock setup just the least expensive way to go? In the grander scheme of things "if" a tensioner would fail, the belt would be in great jeopardy of failure, with all the repercussions that would follow... | ||
| Thunderbox |
I was tending to agree with the spring loaded belt tensioner at first but after reading the article posted by Windrider I think I'll keep the original. Sounds like the belt tension doesn't changer very much at all considering the difference in length from one extreem of the suspension movement to the other is only .010" of an inch. That is so little. I would bet the force on the bearings is increased more by full throttle excell than by any increase in tension which is very little. The belt will stretch more than .010" with only a small amount of excelleration. It also explains why the suspension was designed with this tension in the first place. | ||
| Treadmarks |
I would think this belt tensioner would allow the rear suspension to work more freely and put less stress on the belt and countershaft sprocket shaft. Thats what it feels like to me. The belt is extremely tight but so are Harley Davidsons. I have not changed or adjusted my belt on my 05 supercharged softail since January of 2005. And yes that belt is tight. Remember the suspension on the softail only moves a couple of inches. Hell, it feels like less than that when riding it. Does Buell know best or is the stock setup just the least expensive way to go? Just like HD, they are in the business of making motorcycles for profit. They do produce a very robust and simple product, but the manufacturing cost of the adjustable preloaded belt tensioner probably would not yield a significant return on their investment. Solution...use a fixed idler at the cost of a few degrees of suspension travel. I do know that the bike does roll easier with the spring tensioner than it did with the fixed idler. Before the idler I could not coast from my neighbors house to my house when I popped it into neutral at 35 mph. Now I can coast right on by. | ||
| Alchemy |
Treadmarks, There is a ride on Memorial day weekend called the Res Ride (near Altoona, PA) and hosted by member Toona. There can be a contest to see who can coast the farthest coming down the mountain (Whopsie Mt I believe). You would surely win it would seem. Now we will have to check for tensioners<grin>. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Treadmarks, I've got a request for you. Can you possibly check your belt tension with a fish scale and report to us what it is? What did that tension wheel cost you including shipping? | ||
| Blake |
The fixed idler has absolutely no effect upon the available rear suspension range. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
The stock idler wheel is supposed to supply a constant tension also, but I can't see that it would reduce tension jolts caused by acceleration. BUT, I can see how that spring loaded device on Treadmarks bike would dampen those tension jolts and that is what it is for. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It did when I had it too tight on my M2! Crunnnnnchhhhhh! Of course, there was no idler pulley on that. I can understand (in theory) how a belt tensioning idler pulley could create too much tension and effect handling. What I can't see (in practice) is how a bike could have enough of a belt binding problem to break belts or bind a suspension and not totally destroy bearings in short order. I have the parts to proove it. 5th gear drive assembly needle bearings (tough SOB's) were *destroyed*, the belt continued to be fine both before and for more then 10k miles afterwards when I finally traded it in... (Message edited by reepicheep on March 06, 2008) | ||
| Adrian_8 |
To check out how tight the belt gets someone would have to jack up the bike, take off the shock and move the swingarm in its full range of motion and see how tight the belt gets as it travels thru its arc. Then we would know the stress on the belt, the wheel bearings, and countershaft bearings. Uncle Eric probably knows best... | ||
| Treadmarks |
Puuleeze allow me to retort.  I just replaced my fan. The bike was lifted and supported while I removed the shock. My rear wheel was about 1" off the deck when I disconnected the shock. After the shock was off and the fan was out I picked up the swing arm and raised it to it's limit and eased it back down a few times. There was no binding or sagging belt. However, the idler was moving considerably. I don't believe the rear suspension reaches a point where it binds with the stock idler, but I do believe that at full extension the belt is excessively tight and causes an unnecessary load increase on the wheel bearings and main shaft. Riddle me this: On the charts provided with the above Buell .pdf file, take a gander at the one on the right (belt path length vs. idler position). This chart demonstrates the impact the idler position has on the belt path length. There is clearly a loose spot when fully compressed, a sweet spot where the idler comes into play which is followed by a considerable change in length and tension due to the effects of the idler. While I am sure "Buell knows best" this information was provided by Dane Hoechst in December of 2004 and pertains only to the XB available at or before that time. Fast forward to 2006 and the introduction of the XB12X where the rear suspension is increased from the 5.00" of the XB to 6.38" for the X. Your belt length that was beginning to skew on the referenced chart now skews off the chart. Result..Unexplained failing rear wheel bearings found only in the model X, and possible premature wear on the front shaft. It doesn't take an advanced software package to figure that out.  | ||
| Maximum |
Dang TM...every time you post a convincing argument...it costs me money!  | ||
| Nipsey |
What did that tension wheel cost you including shipping? Here is the current cost - but I think they add more on for US Shipping Order Subtotal: UK83.40 Shipping: UK10.00 Sales Tax: UK0.00 Order Total: UK93.40 At current exchange rates that be about $188.53 | ||
| Johnboy777 |
I hope you all realize, most, if not all, of these mechanical quandaries (e.g., belt tensioner, rear bearings, fans, etc., etc.) can be solved by simply not riding the bike. . | ||
| Nipsey |
WTF...You are supposed to RIDE these things???  We have a problem re that.....if it looks blurry it is because it is -24...  OK not really like that her in Indy, snowy and cold but that is my cabin in MN - snowier and colder! | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
That cold and snow has a constant tension effect on my ULY's belt. Riddle me this:    http://youtube.com/watch?v=1xJYh4bvaec (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on March 07, 2008) | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1xJYh4bvaec | ||
| Treadmarks |
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1xJYh4bvaec Haaaaaaa! That box....is blinking...aruuugh You're showing your age brother EG. | ||
| Nipsey |
Catwoman was hot...dig that crazy spandex!  | ||
| Adrian_8 |
I think you got this thing nailed Tread...the chart, video and the bike is for the shorter travel XB line of bikes...On the longer travel bikes the belt gets too tight...thus all the bearing failures and belt snaps...I have had to belts break...Common sense tell me that there should be some slack in the belt...but..the belt need to be held tight. This tensioner makes sense to me..."Maybe Tread Knows Best" |
