| Author | Message | ||
     Arcticktm |
After 8,300 trouble free miles, I finally had a serious problem with my '06 Uly. Naturally, it happened at the worst possible time (due mostly to my own stupidity). I was in a very isolated area in the Pisgah Forest. I was on a very rough jeep trail that goes off from I-40 at mile marker 8 in NC (just south of Tn border). I read about it as a difficult dual sport road on the Tail of the Dragon website. The dumb moves were 2: I went alone. I took the Uly, instead of my KTM640. I had 5 miles of great fun. The "road" is very rocky, and I crossed the river (Hurricane Creek) about 6 times with no trouble (thanks to the drought). Water was no more than 6-12" deep. I was impressed with how the bike handled the rocks. I was running in 1st gear and using a lot of clutch due to the low speed needed. On an uphill, I began to feel the clutch free-play disappearing. This happened quickly, in about 1 minute. Eventually, the clutch began slipping so badly that I could not keep going and stopped. I thought I only needed to adjust the clutch cable, but that did not help. I then spent the next 2-3 hours hiking out of the wilderness. It took me 1 hour just to get to a place that was high enough to get a cell signal. I then had to drive my Honda Ridgeline on the same jeep trail to pick up the bike. Not fun. I took the bike in to Blue Ridge H-D/Buell on Sunday, and they said they will look at it on Tues. I was going to check it out myself first, but I don't want to mask any warranty issues from Buell. Anyone else used the clutch alot off-road and lived to tell about it? I am wondering if the clutch just plain is not up to off-road slow speeds. I am a serious enduro racer in years past, and I am used to bullet-proof clutches on my KTM's and all Japanese dirt bikes. It sure made me miss my hydraulic clutches on all my previous bikes, but it now looks like I may have a more serious problem. Also, the clutch cable wireform (attached to front engine mount) broke again. this is the 2nd time, and this one only lasted a couple weeks. Anyone seen a better one or made one? Looks like I may need to fab one up, which is a pain with my limited machinery. Looking for input and any other experience here. And don't tell me I should have taken the KTM, because I already figured that out! I love the Uly, but it certainly is not a dual sport bike. I will stick to gravel roads from now on. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Please post what you learn regarding the failure. I agree, the Ulysses is not a dual sport bike. The term dual sport appears to have a wide range of meanings. For some it just means paved or unpaved roads. Out West, organized dual sport rides typically involve extensive single track riding (generally the more single track the better) and a Ulysses is simply unsuitable. I have seen some outstanding riders on BMW GS 1200's and the big KTM 990 DS bike get through these rides, but they are using knobby tires and typically ridden by experts. Most of the time the biggest bike I see on an organized DS ride is a 650. I use my DRZ400S for DS rides and all kinds of desert and mountain off road riding (single track, rocks, sand washes, open desert, ridges, canyons, etc.). My Uly is for everything else. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Lorazepam |
The Uly is an adventure sport bike limited by wheel size (and tire choice) and the lack of a true low first gear. Here in Ohio, lots of folks put on Dual sport/adventure rides. The dual sport portion will have single track, and anything bigger than 650cc is in for a bad day. The adventure portion is mainly gravel roads, with a small bit of unimproved road thrown in. The unimproved portions can be more than the Uly is suited for, but can be done. The Uly is better suited to a track day than off road. | ||
| Arcticktm |
UPDATE: I appreciate the thoughts that it is not a dual sport, but realize that this ride lasted only 5 miles. The rest of the bikes life has been 100% on-road. Dealer just called to confirm that the clutch is burned out. No surprise there. They will not cover it under warranty. Mild surprise there. I am used to dealers/OEM's trying to avoid paying for anything considered a "wear item", but had hoped that 8,300 miles would not be considered a reasonable life for an obviously well maintained bike and clutch. I have had done or done myself all the service manual adjustments, and used only Formula+ in the trans as specified. Dealer wants $500 to do the clutch, which is not going to happen. I just cannot believe that 5 miles of a moderate 4x4 trail killed this clutch... I plan to appeal to the Service Manager, and then to Customer Service, but I am not optimistic. Looks like I may be looking for aftermarket clutch referrals, if anyone has one. | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
I have done ~15,000km of rough offroad on my ('06) Uly, using lots of clutch. Almost 30,000km on the clock now and still no clutch issues. I always run formula+ and regularly check clutch adjustment. I find it hard to beleive the clutch failed completely and left you stranded in the bush. Could you not re-zero the clutch adjustment (behind the inspection cover on the primary case) and get at least some friction?. The XB9 primary drive mod is looking more and more tempting :-) | ||
| Madduck |
I would bet that your clutch was seriously misadjusted for some time before it failed. It should have had no problems with what you've done. When I changed to the "9" primary gearing the tech commented that mine was badly misadjusted but should be good. I check adjustment per manual every few thousand miles now and have found no problem. 9 gearing really helps. | ||
| Khelton |
Something very similar happened to a buddy of mine on his Uly while riding Imogene Pass. He had been slipping the clutch pretty badly for about 30 minutes when it started slipping so bad it wouldn't pull it's own weight.. let it cool and it still did nothing but slip. As far as we were concerned, the clutch was toast. Took the bike back to Pikes Peak Harley in Colorado Springs, braced for the bill. Mechanics just adjusted the clutch, Something we thought we had already done) a few more fixes, covered it on warranty and we were on our merry way, 3 more hard riding days in Colorado and zero problem. We were very surprised it didn't cost a bundle. The mechanic acted like it happened all the time. . Don't buy into the new clutch. If you are going to do any slow riding or dual sport type riding, ya need the lower gearing. Stock the Uly is geared way too tall. | ||
| Froggy |
Your clutch shouldn't have given up in 5 miles. I put 17k on mine, with about 500 miles of its life being off road in crossing just about everything and i have never had an issue. | ||
| Florida_lime |
On a trip this summer, I had a flat tire go out pretty quickly. I pulled over to the side of the (55 mph) road, but it was not a safe place to perform any tire repairs. I could see a 'scenic overlook' sign ahead, and knew that it would be suitable to work on the tire. Unfortunately, it was a hundred yards or so, all uphill. The tire was too flat to push it uphill or to ride, and I was afraid of having it pop off the bead. I was forced to walk/run alongside while under power, slipping the clutch much more than I would have liked. After repairing the tire, I immediately noticed how much the clutch play had tightened up. Any pressure on the clutch lever while riding would allow slippage. After I arrived at my destination, and the bike cooled down, the clutch was better, but not by much. When I got home, I adjusted my clutch per the workshop manual, and noticed how bad the primary fluid smelled of burnt clutch. I changed the fluid (Formula +) and have had no problems in the 5,000 miles since. I had done some tight dirt roads prior to this event, all with a fair amount of clutch slippage as required under the circumstances, but never had a problem like I experienced on the road. The clutch seems to hold up well under normal usage, but take it to far with too much abuse, and it seems to go out pretty quickly. | ||
| Arcticktm |
I will admit that I did not try the clutch adjustment screw in the field. When I left that morning, my clutch cable free play was in spec, and the clutch had never slipped. I was going by the service manual verbage that you only needed to adjust the screw if the clutch was acting up and you could not get proper free play with the cable adjustment. How could my clutch have been seriously misadjusted w/o me realizing it? That would mean that it had to be slipping a lot w/o me ever feeling it. That might be possible for the last couple miles of its life, but not for the 8,295 miles before that. I am generally very sensitive to any change in bike operation or feel. In 24 years of dirt riding, enduro racing, street riding, touring, etc, this is the first big walk-out I have ever had to do (not counting when I put a dirt bike under 3 feet of water in a race), so this is a big confidence hit to me. I'll keep all dirt duty to the dual sport from now on, but that won't restore confidence, since there is no way all that life was lost in 5 miles. If I could get my Honda truck in there to rescue the Uly, then the road wasn't THAT bad. I have scanned the vault and other areas for info on any other clutch issues, and have found very little. That tells me there have not been too many issues, since BB&D seems to have covered just about everything. I guess that is good news for most Uly's, bad news for me. I guess it's time to go aftermarket clutch shopping, and learn how to make a clutch disassembly tool for an H-D... | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
Have you tried the full clutch adjustment as per the service manual yet? Adjusting at the primary I mean. There should be enough left on the clutch plates to get friction again. Unless a plate or spring actually fails, they can not possibly wear out of spec in 'one sitting'. I mean, once the plates wear X amount, they loose friction and no longer touch, thus no longer wear... adjust the clutch so the plates are touching again and you're ready to wear them out all over again  That's unless the plates are truely burnt out like the dealer said... but do we trust our dealers? HAhah pff. | ||
| Brad1445 |
I lost my Uly Clutch at 14k I was not happy | ||
| Treadmarks |
11000 miles, mostly in heavy traffic as a daily driver. I slip the clutch so much I'm surprised it is still working. I also hammer the bike pretty darn hard when I find an opening, or balls out when there is a clear road. I also have a softail and it sees the same traffic. I learned on an HD forum, that there are actually two different unwritten specs for setting the clutch on the big twins. One is the standard method and works well for most riders. The other, is the setting they use for police bikes on parade detail. It seems the extra slippage and higher heats of parade detail will wipe out a clutch pretty quick on a big twin, so they set it up loose to allow for the expansion of the plates. If you don't have the extra play to allow for expansion, you begin to lose spring preload which leads to slippage, high heat and fluid contamination. Your clutch is pretty much toast after that. I use the parade settings on both my HDs and have not yet had an issue. I also run amsoil 20w50 in the primary of both bikes. Wonder which oil is in the bikes with clutches that have failed. | ||
| Ratbuell |
You can have your freeplay perfectly in spec...while hooked to a maladjusted clutch pack. Ask me how I know....  ANY time you do a clutch adjust, do the whole thing. Don't just adjust the cable, if you do that without adjusting the clutches you can actually mask a problem and make it worse. YMMV, this is just my personal experience...but really, popping the cover is 3 screws, you don't need fluid or a gasket if you're careful and doing it straight up, and it takes about eight seconds. Depending how far out the clutches were (if they were), and for how long...it is possible it went out in 5 miles. Unlikely, but possible. I'd perform a full adjustment, change the fluid, adjust the primary and try it out. Could have burned out a plate or 2...but a full adjustment may get you some more life. | ||
| Spike |
Jim (Arctic)- Something does seem to be amiss here. As you've noticed, clutch failures on Ulys are quite uncommon. Expand that search to the entire XB line and you've got quite a large sample size demonstrating that the XB clutches seem to be very hardy. However, clutch "abuse" on a street bike and clutch "abuse" on a dirt bike are entirely different things. On my XB12R I consider it hard on the clutch to practice holeshots where I'm at or near WOT and modulating the clutch to keep the front end down. On my KTM 250 I consider it par for the course to ride the bike a gear high on single track and use the clutch frequently to get out of slippery stuff or to get the motor back up to the RPM where it makes good power. The difference between the two is that while holeshots on the XB12R likely get the clutch hot, they don't continually keep the clutch hot for extended periods of time. It's only hot for a few seconds and then it gets a chance to cool down. Riding single track on my KTM gets my clutch hot and keeps it hot until I finish the trail. It seems that there are two likely possibilities in your scenario: 1. You legitimately have a defective and or poorly adjusted clutch, but it seems unlikely that you would have gone ~8k miles without noticing it. 2. The XB clutch, while quite durable for street use, fails and suffers permanent damage when overheated and "abused" continually for extended periods of time. I hope I'm wrong, but #2 seems more likely of the two. Based on wheel size alone it looks like Buell was thinking more fire road than single track when developing the Ulysses. I still think the bike can handle jeep trails, but it will require using the clutch sparingly and possibly swapping to the XB9 primary to lower the gearing. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Good advice on adjusting the screw any time you do freeplay. Unfortunately, I was following the Service Manual advice that says you only need to do the screw adjust if the cable adjuster isn't enough, or if you are having clutch problems (I was not). I adjusted the cable once, and is has been stable since (a few thousand miles ago). The dealer service manager said he would call tech Service, but I am not counting on any help yet. if no help, I will bring the bike back and check it out myself before deciding what to do. Note that I was NOT on single track, but a gravel/rocky road that any 4x4 or higher clearance 2WD could easily handle. It is on the map as a USFS fire road. My only concern with doing it myself is that I do not have (nor want to buy) the HD tool for the spring removal. | ||
| Geopatr |
American Sportbike has the clutch spring tool if you want to do it your self. http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/5493.html | ||
| Stevem123 |
If it were me with this problem here's where I would get pissed and what I'd do. First I would go to the dealer and retrieve the bike to the parking lot. Next I would remove the derby cover in the parking lot and perform the adjusting screw adjustment myself before ever leaving the parking lot. If it fixes the bike, then I would show the service manager and tell him he no longer gets my business. Then I'd call Buell customer service and report the problem. This may sound harsh but I hate seeing people getting reamed for minor stuff because someone wanted to make some $$$ for basically nothing. I seriously doubt the clutch friction plates are totally gone. Worn maybe, but not gone and probably adjustable........ BC Steve | ||
| Spike |
If it was merely a gravel/rocky road, why did it need so much clutch work? | ||
| Dr_greg |
I rode my '06 Uly during ADVrider.com WestFest07 over some rocky USFS road that demanded a decent amount of clutch work. Clutch handled it fine; yours should have as well. I now have over 37K miles on the original clutch with no sign of any problems. I don't think I've ever even had to adjust it. Yes, I am generally pretty easy on the clutch (and the bike in general; I'm an old geezer). So yours was definitely pathological. (Of course I also got 37K miles out of a stock Ducati 900SS dry clutch...) | ||
| Harleychanic |
ALWAYS do a full clutch adjustment! And also make sure that you are adjusting the clutch when it is cold not after slipping it or trail riding for the last hour, it WILL give you a false setting! And yes, they are not set up to act like a true dirtbike. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Spike, There are a lot of rocks in WNC, as you certainly know. I prefer to go around them whenever possible, instead of testing my tires and rims too much. With a bike that has tall highway gearing (Uly) that means you will need the clutch some, since it does not like to go below 30mph in 1st gear smoothly. Dealer called back today to tell me that Buell Service has no interest in helping with the repair. Of course, I will call them myself to try to change their mind. Failing that, I will get the bike back and confirm it needs a new clutch, before putting in an aftermarket unit. I would say something dramatic here like "and then I will sell the damn thing", but the reality is that I cannot think of another bike that would serve me any better overall, unless I go back to a pure sport touring bike. No doubt I am done with fire roads on it, though, and will be doing a lot of clutch screw adjustments now, just to be sure. And never go too far from civilization alone! | ||
| Arcticktm |
UPDATE: Buell customer Service flat refused to help, and "Heidi" wouldn't even consider letting me talk to a Tech rep. She explained that this was a "wear" issue, after first trying to explain that they would not cover it because they could not verify that I had done the proper maintenance (the 1000 mile service was actually done by a H-D dealer just before I bought the bike, the 5000 mile service is just a cable and/or screw adjustment, which I did, and I even did a "bonus" Formula+ oil change at 6000 miles that was not due until 10,000). It was a very frustrating conversation, and she was very cavalier about blowing me off. Did not really seem to care at all. I kind of regret calling Buell, because before I was just disappointed that the clutch failed. Now, I am plain pissed off at Buell, and will have a hard time ever believing that they will stand behind the bike. I also could never recommend Buell to anyone anymore, which sucks when you are still riding one. I know I expect a lot, but I also give a lot with top maintenance and positive word of mouth on products I have success with. It has never been a problem with Suzuki, Honda, Ducati (yes, really!), Husqvarna, Yamaha, KTM and BMW's that I owned. BMW Service actually went out of their way to re-imburse me for fixing my cruiser brakes in Canada, when the warranty is technically only valid in the US. Thanks for giving me a place to vent, even if it does no good. I'm going clutch shopping now. Any words of encouragement sure wouldn't hurt! | ||
| Dr_greg |
That's not encouraging. I have not personally had to deal with Buell CS (hmm, CS...there are other terms that fit CS that might apply here) but---like you---I would have hoped for better treatment. I had a H-D/Buell dealer misadjust my clutch and had to redo it myself. So much for dealer involvement being critical for clutch life. Well, we're all gonna need new clutches eventually, so let us know what you find out there. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Did you ever try and adjust the clutch pack yourself or are you just depending on what the dealer told you? | ||
| Arcticktm |
I am going by what the dealer told me until I can get the bike back and verify myself. It is 80+ miles away, and I am waiting for another part (that is under warranty) to arrive before making the trip. I told them not to do any work on the clutch after they told me it was fried. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Got the bike back on Saturday (11/3). The stock clutch was totally fried, no question. Besides the awful smell and looks of the plates, I measured the friction stack, and it was .030"+ below the minimum spec per SM. No point in putting it together and trying to adjust, though it still would have been smart to try that to get me home when it failed. Installed the new Energy One clutch kit, including a 15% stiffer than stock diaphragm spring. Pretty straightforward, though the spring seat was a bit confusing to get in the right order, having never worked on a HD clutch before. I would tell you how it works, BUT: local shop (NOT the HD dealer) gave me the wrong primary cover gasket, so I called the dealer to send me one today. Note that the dealer (Blue Ridge HD/Buell) has been good about all this, even though Buell will not help with warranty. The mechanic that took it apart came out to help me load the bike on Saturday, and even went out of his way to give me pointers on doing the install. They also did not try to stick me with a "diagnostic" charge for the teardown, which was a relief and saved me a fight. If I had asked them for the gasket, I would have had the thing back together on Sunday! NOTE: I got the "extra plate" kit, but had to eliminate 1 of each plate to match the stock # of plates (8 friction, 7 metal)and get near the stock stack height. These kits are all set up for replacing the double riveted plate the HD used to use, but our newer bikes do not have. I also ended up removing the "narrow" friction plate (since all the frictions were toasted, of course) and the 2 metal rings that fit inside it (1 is a seat, the other a wave washer). | ||
| Arcticktm |
The end of the story (hopefully): Energy One clutch kit is installed and tested for about 250 miles. I like it a lot better than stock. For some reason, the bike shifts easier and quieter, which makes me wonder if my stock clutch was out of whack since day one (though it did not drag at all). Anyway, the stiffer spring gives a bit more aggressive engagement than stock, and I like that. More like a dirt bike clutch feel to me. Neutral is super easy to find in all conditions. Still using Formula+ oil for now. So far, so good, and 1/3 the price of OEM parts. Thinking about lowering the gearing with XB9 primary as a next year project now. | ||
| Matadormkv |
I have had 9 NEW Harley's since 1999 and try to follow the Ulysses posts cause I'm interested in one. On ALL of my bikes, you loosen the clutch cable as loose as it will go, then make sure the screw at the basket is backed off about 3/4 of a turn or so, then re-adjust the cable. Is it the same for the Ulysses? Man, I never trust a dealer to do this stuff...it's too easy to do it yourself anyway. |
