| Author | Message | ||
     Bertotti |
I'm glad this is working out but for the amount of airflow created by the fittings I would still rather vent down by the shock. I pulled my seat and started fishing around. I am going to start looking for the male and female connectors that are on the cables and ecm mod. I intend to make a extension and move the ecm to the area where you have the fittings installed. I then think by opening up the area under the ecm's original location, by removing some of the plastic there and building a hood over the area it will have as good or better airflow and keep the seat cool. Hopefully. This all depends on if I can find the male and female ends. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
When I rode back from Homecoming to Omaha, NE the heat outside was in the 90's for sure and the heat coming off the rear cylinder was pretty bad, even with my homemade heat shield (which is now removed since installing the new Buell heat deflectors). I really think that we ULY riders are going to eliminate or at the least greatly reduce this fried leg problem. I've never been a RSS advocate but was very pleased to here that Thelumox was able to ride 100 miles without his fan turning on. Apparently this was something different to him and all he did was open the bungee hook holes. I don't have the RSS and I've gone further with the hole boring theme and my fan still turns on but definitely not as soon. Since that test I added two more rear compartment holes for a total of four but have not ridden the ULY except to run to the grocery store a couple of miles away (hardly a test). Something I really hadn't noticed until yesterday is that the cylinder heads are right biased in the frame and the gas tank is much wider on the left than on the right. That difference right there accounts for how easily the right side is heated up by the rear cylinder. I'm probably the last ULY rider to notice that difference. Anyway, here is some insulation called Aerogel that would be great to have between the seat pan and the seat foam http://www.aerogel.com/markets/c_mobile.html I've emailed them about getting some of this stuff but my emails so far have gone unnoticed. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Bertotti, That's a good project. I always thought that computers needed to stay cool or that they would go wacky but our ECMs surely get very warm in the place the Buell engineers have them mounted. The same with that rear brake reservoir. I've had no problems with them and haven't read of problems so it must be OK to heat them up. | ||
| Bertotti |
Electraglider_1997 there are a lot of insulating materials out there. here is just one site. http://www.auburnmfg.com/appsinsul.html?copy_pages /appsinsul_copy.php~mainFrame | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Read up on Aerogel. Google it. It is the lightest known man-made substance. They insulate satellites with it and actually used it to capture stardust in that one NASA space experiment. | ||
| Bertotti |
I remember when NASA was doing the experiment to capture micro meteors. Needless to say they are hauling butt when they hit the atmosphere. I didn't know that the stuff you linked was the same stuff. Here is a link to a place that sells the 6 mm heat blanket of aerogel. 0.25 x 4.5 x 17-inch. costs 79$ kind of expensive. http://www.tomorad.com/products.php?PHPSESSID=01d2df257ae64b6487bf32faf89de116#d I don't know why it wont link but copy and paste I tried and it worked. (Message edited by Bertotti on July 29, 2007) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Bertotti, Your idea of moving the ECM back and making a larger air opening at the front behind the shock seems good. That would make the Uly more like the XB12R shown in the photo in the other thread. It seems the only reason the factory didn't do this was to provide a large storage space under the seat. Keep us posted on how your mod works out. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Aspen Aerogel makes that stuff and they are insulating modular houses with it and they certainly can't be applying it at that ridiculous price. http://www.aerogel.com/products/overview.html | ||
| Unibear12r |
I'm not that sure Electraglide. It does look to me like BMC made an attempt to keep heat away from the ECM and battery. Heat usually makes electronics slow down or malfunction before it reaches a level that actually damages the electronics. I had this problem once before on a car and it was a big, big pita to find. My bike decided to quit pinging all on its own. I really must be getting old and slow. It WAS at about the time I put the foil in. I didn't think of the possible connection until you brought it up. I'd stay with conventional wisdom and keep the battery and electronics as cool as I could. | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
Bertotti, I have been toying with the idea of moving the ECM back too. I'll post if I have any luck finding the connectors. | ||
| Bertotti |
I think I have some of the pin ends used in the connection. I could just add to the wire. I may just do that because then I can get started as soon as I have a free day. I am was thinking of using velcro on the ecm in the storage area but maybe that isn't secure enough. Any thoughts? | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
I'm thinking of mounting it up off the surface slightly, so it wouldn't be sitting in water/mud/dirt. The velcro would definitely hold it, but I don't know about it bouncing around... although, it would be exposed to a lot of vibrations in the stock location anyway. So I think it'd be fine. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Here's another theory of mine for what it's worth. I can understand that some think that all the hot air needs to exit out the shock well but I contend that when you open up holes to provide even more ventilation the cooling will be improved. It still is able to go out the shock well but also through another escape route. All I can say is that it works. Making sure it only goes out the shock well doesn't improve cooling, it only directs it. | ||
| Midnightrider |
Now I am at a loss. To summarize, I made a test run last night with a remote thermometer. The underseat compartment (USC) in stock configuration topped out at 115F while riding at speed, 119 in traffic. On the way home, I opened up the bungee holes, USC again topped out at 115F. Last night I added three 3/4" holes to the seat dam and two to the floor of the seat pan. Then I sealed them, and today made another, longer run. The ambient temp today was about 7 degrees warmer. The "stock" run topped out at about 119F after about 30 minutes at speed. Then I opened up all the holes. As luck would have it, then I hit traffic and had to reduce speed from about 70-75 to 50ish. USC temp got up to about 124. When I got into about 5 minutes of stop and go stuff, it went up to 130F. When I got to my destination (dealer to order the heat deflectors)I immediately jumped off the bike while the fan was running to check air flow. There was a ton of hot air coming down the shock well - just as designed, I suppose. There was a little bit venting near the rear master cylinder on the right and the wire bundles on the left. I might have felt a bit of air coming from the seat pan holes but it was hard to tell whether this was coming down from the pan or was being bounced up from the massive airflow down the shock well. My results on the way home were about the same. I guess the supreme proof would have been to again seal everything up now that the bike was "pre-heated" but it started to rain. Hard. The air temp dropped drastically and the USC temp hovered around 124F. And there was no water/moisture in the USC from the holes in the pan I still can't answer the question about if the fan runs less. I also strapped a meat thermometer (literally) to the inside of my right leg in the exact spot I got blistered on a hot ride a few weeks ago. It never went above ambient air temp. Now - I have to acknowledge that despite my plans the runs were far from identical. And the runs today were longer, with slower average speeds, in hotter ambient temps. I'll need to do some longer and more consistent runs but the initial conclusions I come to are - The extra airflow while stopped from the added holes seems minor - At speed, the extra holes may actually draw more are out the back. Unfortunately, it may also result in a hotter environment for the battery and ECM Probably the most surprising thing from the whole day was how much air the fan was pushing while parked. I don't know if I just never noticed it before or if my old fan was dying down gradually and I just never noticed it. I still think there are too many variables in my runs and they are too short to call this a done deal.. But if the trend does continue, seems like sealing up the holes and making the USC a dead air space AND using some sort of insulating blanket for the battery and ECM is the best thing for the bike, though not necessarily for the rider's right leg | ||
| Hughlysses |
Midnightrider, I tend to agree with your conclusions in your last paragraph. I do think the heat deflectors will do a decent job of keeping the air off your legs, at least if something like the Special Ops heat blanket or foil tape is used to seal off the underseat compartment and force the air out of the desired openings. I noticed after my mods and test ride that at least after the fan kicked on, a pretty significant amount of air was coming out of the right hand deflector. I'd guess at least 1/2 of what's coming out around the shock opening. I think moving the rear brake reservoir made a significant improvement on the right side. I forgot to mention that I also did what I could on the left side to improve the air flow on the left side, which wasn't much. The fuel line and a wire lie on the bottom of the opening; a ~1" diameter wrapped bundle of wires are at the top of the opening. I zip tied the wrapped bundle to the rear section frame which pulled them up maybe 1/2" which should have helped the flow slightly. There was some air coming out of the left side, but not nearly as much as on the right. I think you could probably make some more room for airflow around the shock without doing anything too radical. It's just really hard to see what's under there because of all the wires and hoses. (Message edited by hughlysses on July 29, 2007) | ||
| Midnightrider |
Right Hugh I replaced my fan a couple of weeks ago - which requires you to drop the shock out first. It's not too big a deal to remove it and then you can really see what's in there. When I did it I wasn't looking at it with the heat flow issue in mind but what I do remember is that there's not a lot of wiggle room. On another entirely unrelated non-bike project I've been working with some pieces of plexiglass - heating slowly with a torch and shaping strips around different forms. I'm wondering if I can form a piece the approximate size and shape of the left hand opening to keep the wires either above or below it and out of the airflow. A conduit of sorts. Problem is how to keep it in place if I ever get good enough to make the right shape | ||
| Bertotti |
Electraglider_1997 I agree that using the shock well only directs it. I am pursuing that route because I didn't want to punch holes in the seat pan. I did want to move the ecm back farther and I do not want the hot air blowing out the holes on the side onto my leg, and that leaves me with just the downward opening around the shock. Any added holes may help flow. I think it all depends on the aerodynamics under the frame. My ultimate goal though is to keep my seat and legs cooler. Hey maybe I should mount a mini cooler and plumb my seat. | ||
| Growl |
I have noticed that the 06 low seat obstructs air flow underneath more than the stock '06 tall seat. When using the tall seat the fan runs much less. | ||
| Jmhinkle |
Hugh, Can you take a picture of your Odie shield after you cut it down. I would like to get and idea of how much you cut off. I was thinking of doing the same thing as well. Sorry I'm so late to the post guys. I'm out of town for work right now and haven't had a chance to check in lately. I'm probably the biggest whiner about the right side heat issue although mine is more with the frame than the area by the brake reservoir. I do like what you guys are trying and will try some of my own investigations when I return home and start riding the blister machine again. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Joel, Here's a photo of the original shield with the approximate cut line marked, and another after the shield was cut. The right side lays down into the valley between the ECM on one side and the rear subframe on the other. I tried to make it fit up under the front of the ECM and lay down on the underseat pan to seal off the airflow. On the left side of the photo, the shield fits down between the big wire bundle and the ECM. It would probably be worthwhile to tape this edge to the underseat pan using foil tape so it's 100% airtight. Before cut with line showing approximate cut location:  After cut:  Different view. You can see the single zip tie I put to try to hold up the wiring bundle slightly to provide slightly better air flow on this side:  I rode the bike ~20 miles to work yesterday morning; it was in the high 70's (cool for this time of year here). I'm confident it is taking significantly longer before the fan kicks in for the first time, and the seat is definitely staying cooler with this setup. (Message edited by hughlysses on July 31, 2007) | ||
| Jmhinkle |
The one thing I never liked after getting my shields was the fact that all that heat was trapped around the ECM. I like what you have done and will try the same. I really like the brake reservoir relocation too. Great ideas there. Did you ever get any info on your rear shock preload? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Joel, I forgot to tell you about the shock pre-load. My bike would only go 18 turns on the pre-load (from full out to full in). Court checked with the factory and here's the response he got: "I just looked at 6 different Ulysses ranging form 08’s to 06’s. It seems that this customer has identified an error in our manuals. The bikes ranged from 18.25 to 18.5 turns total available. There is a bit of variance on the low end of the adjustment, some have up to 2.5 turns of “free play" before they start to build pressure, others have as low as 0.5 turns of free play. Some people don’t count this free play as adjustment range, but I intended to include it in the settings charts. That is basically why the lowest setting starts at 3 turns for the 08 chart. I suspect he has about 2 turns of free play (pretty typical) and is counting the remaining 16 turns for a total of about 18 just like all the other Uly’s I checked. I would say as long as his adjustor doesn’t feel “gritty” or packed full of dirt, he is getting all of the available travel at the adjustor knob. As long as there is no fluid leaking at the fittings and the preload collar (I have never seen this happen yet), then every turn is translating into spring preload as intended. Have the preload collar visually inspected for leaks, and check the hose for chafing or signs of leakage, but I think he is probably getting everything that all the other Ulysses bikes are getting." Based on that, I don't have a problem. | ||
| Jmhinkle |
If memory serves, I get 16-17 max, but my adjuster is extremely gritty. I do have the 2 turns of free play he speaks of. I haven't seen any fluid leaks so I guess it's marginally ok then. Thanks for the info. | ||
| Bertotti |
Ok I did a non bike heat management experiment today. I have a shop 110 miles one way. I decided that since I get real squirrely on a hot seat i would try some different drawers. I had some for real hot environments when doing big equipment installs to help keep theater butt away. Well they are a mesh. Ok start laughing now because mesh drawers on a hot Uly seat do not mix. I may as well have put a cheese grater between my cheeks and my pants. What a pain! I had mesh welts. Well enough forewarned is forearmed. Laugh away. Test failed. | ||
| L_je |
pics! | ||
| Bertotti |
Not a chance! I wasn't laughing at the time but now I am rolling. Bonehead award of the day I guess. | ||
| Bross |
Not sure if this has been posted, but I just read about this product in the latest Cycle World - Reflecta-Cool, sheets are $11 http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sp &pid=28 | ||
| Firstbatch |
Nice link Bross....I was looking for something like that | ||
| Bertotti |
Yes nice link. I am going to order this and see what I come up with. | ||
| Midnightrider |
I've become convinced that the direction I want to take is to maximize the air flow down the shock well and out the side ports while minimizing the air flow over the battery and the ECM. I constructed a home-made heat blanket out of two pot-holders sewn into a cover I made from a welder's drop sheet. I fitted it like Hughlysses has in the thread above - covering the top of the shock and tucked down underneath the ECM, ending at the point where the front of the battery sits on the underseat pan. I sealed all the holes I made in earlier test runs and put the lead to the remote digital thermometer in the empty space between the battery and the tail. As you might suspect, the temp in the underseat compartment was cooler. Summarizing: Test Run 1: Stock configuration. Ambient air 85F. Temp at highway speeds 115F. Temp in traffic 119F. Test Run 2: Holes in the underseat pan. Ambient air 85F. Temp on the highway 115F. Temp in traffic 119F Test Run 3. Holes in the underseat pan and holes in the seat dam. Ambient air 92F. Temp on the highway 124F. Temp in traffic 130F. Test Run 4. No holes anywhere. Thermal blanket in place to limit any airflow past the shockwell. Ambient air temp 85F. Temp on the highway 109F. Temp in traffic 111F. In addition, the surface temp of the ECM seems (subjectively) cooler than in the runs 2 and 3. Based upon this I will probably "refine" the size and shape of the home-made blanket to get a better seal. I'm also thinking of adding some sore of heat reflecting material like the stuff mentioned above. Still waiting for my air deflectors to come from the factory and still contemplating buying a right side scoop. Unfortunately because of my lousy hearing I can't comment on if the fan ran more or less in one run compared to another. I guess I am content to count on the fan doing its job when needed and focus on keeping the heat off the ECM and the battery. Hope this helps anybody in their pursuit of "heat management" |
