| Author | Message | ||
     Ihavemanyfleas |
So, if you have been on this board long enough to know who I am, you are familiar with my bike pinging, and the new motor that buell put in, and it's pinging problems, etc.. So, I spoke some time ago to the local HD rep who suggested only buying gas from chevron. I've been buying gas from exon and shell, and it pings like a rattle can. Since that conversation, and after I got over my frustration, I have been experimenting with the gas station thing. Since I've been buying the techron the ping is very hard to reproduce. So, this leads to some questions on gas and fuel additives. First off, those of us who have been experiencing this gawdawefull pinging, have you tried this experiment? And second, those of you who have recomended to me to use additives, what are you using, and how much has this helped? I hope that this post helps... I plan on calling buell about this comment as well since they have been very good about working with me. | ||
| Davo |
Ihavemanyfleas, Have you checked your timing on the new engine? If I ever get another Buell the first thing I would do is check the timing and if it pinged I would move the timing until the pinging ceased. If you want I will be happy to send you some compression checking equipment so you can check the compression. I recently checked the TPS on a 06 Uly with 1K miles and the TPS indicated that the timing was set late at the factory. I did not open up the timing cone but the owner said he would let me check it at the next spark plug service interval. I will post the results as soon as I secure the data. Until then I recommend that you retard the timing until the pinging ceases. Remember 1mm equals 3 degrees. To retard move the CPS counter- clockwise. Be sure to scribe a mark where the factory set the timing. | ||
| Xbimmer |
My ping-monster has been fed every major-brand fuel since Day 1 last May, with no noticeable difference. To be objective, starting tomorrow I'll stick to Chevron for a couple weeks Fleas. The ping hasn't been bad lately but summer is coming... Just hit 25k in my Uly's first year  so I think I pretty much know how it runs on what fuel and when, but who knows? Davo, sorry you left the Fold but nice to see you're still there to chip in! | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Hmmm, I mentioned Chevron or Techron additives about what....a year ago? | ||
| Davo |
Thanks Xbimmer. I still wrench on Buells every chance I get. I enjoy watching BadWeb and I am curious to see what the heat of summer brings to this issue. I think the factory has made a move. The last TPS I looked at was 6.2 @ 1050 which is exactly what my bike was after the timing adjustment. When the timing is retarded the throttle plate needs to be opened more to maintain the same idle. 5.8 was my stock reading. The bike I checked at 6.2 had factory rivets in it still and it appeared they had never been drilled. That means they might be leaving the factory late. Rarely does anyone check the timing on a bike that is running correctly. It would be interesting if some of the non pinging Uly's were checked. | ||
| Packdog |
I'm lucky - my Uly doesn't ping. But I did meet up with another rider who has a pinger. We took a ride and I showed him a small station that carries Trick brand 101 octane gas at the pump. The ping went away (at $6.20/gal). Since the other rider has tried octane boost and the whole plethora of other additives, it doesn't seem to be just the higher octane that cured it. This info probably just muddies the waters some more, but hopefully one day a pattern will emerge and the dreaded ping problem can be solved. | ||
| Teeps |
Hate to rain on the Chevron parade but that's what I use; and it pings just fine. Thank you very much. Adding 6 to 8oz of Toluene ($10 a gallon @ paint store) per gal of 91 Chevron does (seem) to minimize the pining on my bike. Still, there are no engine related failures, due to pining, that I am aware of... If Xbimmer hasn't blown up yet, I really don't think it's "that big" a problem. Now, don't take that to mean I don't want it fixed I do; I'm just through losing sleep over when it happens. | ||
| Teeps |
Packdog, To make your Ulysses ping. Find a long hill (3% or more grade) cruise in 3rd gear @ 3k rpm. Then roll on the throttle to WOT, as though you were passing a car. (do not snap the throttle open, just a moderate roll on.) When the engine rpm reaches 3500rpm the engine should start pining. The duration is about 2 to 3 seconds, through 4500rpm. | ||
| Snowscum |
It may not blow up anytime soon but to lose that much power(when pinging) is lame. | ||
| Ulyssesguy |
Well i think I'll throw in my two cents worth... I have an 06' Uly with 8300 mi, the only time i have ever heard it ping was when i was riding 2up and i forgot to put it in first starting out from a stop. I generally run Chevron 89 octane or what ever available 89 oct brand is at the station i stop at... I try to avoid using Arco gas because of the 10% ethanol. Does anyone in Washington state have a Uly that pings? I would like to meet up and hear what a real pinger sounds like. I am also going to try Teeps description of how to make your Uly ping as soon as i get it back from the shop... | ||
| Orangeulius |
Mine pinged like a son of a gun last year. A Buell race pipe and ECM made it go bye bye.  | ||
| Davo |
I think one of the main factors for this issue is compression ratio. Some of these engines have more compression than others. If your are having symptoms then check your compression. Then make a timing adjustment. Snowscum, If you are loosing power to ping then you need to consider a timing adjustment. Your engine will spin up much better too. Your pipes might go red sooner but that is heat that is no longer in the combustion chamber. | ||
| Crusty |
Why would someone want to make their bike ping? I'd try to avoid it. My Uly has suffered with pinging twice. Both times it was under light throttle at about 3,000 RPM. Now, I just don't run it at 3,000 RPM and there is no pinging problem. | ||
| Snowscum |
Well I havent had mine ping but a couple short rattle so far since the intake leak was fixed last fall. But it hasnt been really hot here yet so who knows. I did try the different gas station gig. I did notice last summer that running Sinclair out of Wyoming decreased the the pinging to a degree. It did seem kinda random at times. My bitch these days is the lifter noise. The belt issue,pinging,intake leak,noisy lifters all took place about the same time. So I've has some issue free riding for a while.  | ||
| Davo |
Crusty, Did you make Springfield this year? Snowscum, Lifter noise is why I love Harleys. Most folks like the exhaust. I like quiet pipes so I can hear the valve train. | ||
| L_je |
Oddly enough, my bike has a pinging problem in the winter months, but only when the rear cylinder is near the 428ºF mark. I put the '07 airbox on my bike a couple of months ago, and noticed some immediate power increases, but those increases seemed to go away after a couple of days. This exactly matched my expectations for an EFI bike. I just had the '07 ECM reflash this week, and on a ~93ºF day, I flogged the daylights out of the bike when the fan engaged, and could only coax a couple of "ticks" out of it. No real ping. Even going WOT while in the 2.5k-4krpm range, I couldn't get the bike to behave the way it did this winter. And, Teeps has the right idea with the Toluene. Now, if he lived alone in a 1 room cabin with a manual typewriter in Montana, then I'd start to get worried. I think that regional gasoline blends introduce a lot of havoc with respect to ping in high compression engines without knock sensors. The auto-ignition point of Ethanol is very non-linear, and plummets as pressure increases, more so than most other fuels. Granted, the EFI mapping on the XBs should be able to handle up to a 10% Ethanol blend, but I think some of these regional blends would show some interesting autoignition temp/press curves. | ||
| Pso |
Kevin Cameron has a nice article on pinging in "MOtorcycle" Mag this month. | ||
| Teeps |
Crusty Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2007 - 08:50 pm: Why would someone want to make their bike ping? The point is, that all stock Ulysses will ping. Not that you want your bike to ping, it just does. And, riding the bike in the conditions I have laid out will produce a ping. If Buell is serious about fixing this problem, then this knowledge should make it easier for them. I have said (in different ping threads) that I didn't hear my bike ping until I rode it without ear plugs... For those with Race Ecm's try my road test and let us know if you can make your Race Ecm equipped bike ping too. Surprise me, please, I've got 200 bucks burning a hole in my pocket, that I'd spend on a Race Ecm in a second, if I knew it would help. | ||
| Old_mil |
Are the pingers only 06s, or are there pinging 07s as well? | ||
| Davo |
Old mil, I cannot answer your question but in my case a 07 reflash and 07 air box on my 06 did not eliminate or even reduce the symptom. I would love to check out a 07 if anyone is in the neighborhood. The summer of 07 will answer your question. Summer is here in Southside VA and it is hot. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Remember that the P/N for the cylinder heads also changed for 07. While the compression ratio is listed as being the same, it's possible they changed the combustion chamber shape or finish slightly to reduce the tendency to ping. My 07 has never pinged once in 3000 miles to my knowledge. The weather here (coastal SC) is just starting to get good and hot, but I've been in bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go traffic every afternoon this week with the temps in the low 90's, and it hasn't pinged yet. (Message edited by hughlysses on June 08, 2007) | ||
| Gotj |
Just for the record, I have a 2006 Uly with the 07 airbox, no reflash. No pinging to my knowledge in 3,000 miles in East Tennessee heat. My other bike with an oil temp gage regularly shows 240 degrees. | ||
| Teeps |
Oil temp in my Uly's swingarm runs in the 190f range. | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
Davo I may take you up on the compression equipment at some point this summer. Since I've been running the techron, I haven't had any ping. I know that problems don't fix themselves, so I'm wondering if I could have bent something, or caused other damage that would make the ping go away. It's been pretty hot this week, and I've been able to WOT the throttle pretty hard where the bike would normally ping, and no ping. I haven't made any timing adjustments, or done anything performance-wise... so we'll see. Now, if the ping is gone, I'm tempted to throw on the 7 airbox and maybe farkle away. If I see the ping again, I may be contacting you for the test equip which I will totally pay for shipping... I think a couple of more weeks as the temp heats up will give me enough time to see what happens. I've called allen to ask him what he things about the fuel or additives, but I haven't heard anything back in several days. Thanks for everyones responses to my post. | ||
| Ridetherejk |
I have a BMW R1150 GS that pings mainly in the heat. It seams that the Beemers have the same problem as the Buells. Some of the bikes ping a little, some ping a lot, and some never do. 1 of the causes could be carbon build up. That raises the compression and adds to the pinging problem. Gas additives and different brands of gas help or hurt this problem. Some say use a good fuel injection cleaner and then stick with the octane that the manufacturer recommends. The higher octane fuel doesn't burn fast enough and ands the carbon build up. The lower octane fuel burns quicker but is less stable at higher compressions. I have read this in magazines, but, it didn't work on mine. BMW solved this problem on the R1200 engines by adding a knock sensor. Maybe Buell will do the same soon. | ||
| Mramsey |
Teeps said "For those with Race Ecm's try my road test and let us know if you can make your Race Ecm equipped bike ping too." Teeps I will try your road test and let you know. It may take a couple days so check back. For those of you keeping up with details on the Ulysses pinging issues. I havn't commented on it yet but maybe should have. My Uly pinged severely from time to time in the stock configuration and would still ping after installing Special Ops pipe. However after installing the race ecm and K&N filter I can't remember it pinging a single time. The race ecm was installed 10 months ago. Just thought I would share this for another data point. Mark | ||
| Teeps |
Mramsey Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2007 - 05:24 pm: Teeps I will try your road test and let you know. It may take a couple days so check back. Thank you. I'd like to try a race but it if doesn't work I don't want to be out another $200. I can say for certain that the TFI unit won't fix the ping. Or, the surging at low speed. | ||
| 05mxdiesel |
My leftover 06 uly just started pinging a couple of weeks ago. I am going to see what the dealer says when I need my tps reset at 5k. I run nothing but exxon 93 octane and occasionaly put some lucas upper cylinder lubricant in it but it still does it. | ||
| Snowscum |
Do you guys notice pinging when the gas is almost down to the reserve? | ||
| Mramsey |
Snowscum Said "Do you guys notice pinging when the gas is almost down to the reserve?" Seems before My Uly quit pinging 10 months ago that it would only do it when the frame and fuel was hot from engine heat. Maybe less fuel heats up faster?  Now that has me wondering if the pinging stopped because of colder weather or ecm change or something else, but it did completely stop. Teeps I did your road test yesterday multiple times the air temperature was 80f and I made sure to get the bike and frame hot first. It did not ping however don't just use my info as a deciding factor for a race ecm. I would hate for you to buy one and then it not help. One thing I did notice immediately with the race ecm is the deceleration popping was reduced. I still have the stock ecm and can put it back on easily for a ping test.  I'll try that and get back with you. May take a couple of days. Mark | ||
| Mramsey |
Well that didn't go as expected. I can't get the Uly to ping with either race or stock ecm, not that I'm complaining. Sorry about the inconclusiveness. For those of you with the pinging problem I hope you get it lined out soon. Teeps If you get a race ecm and it helps let us know, curious. Mark | ||
| Teeps |
Mramsey, Thanks for taking the time to swap ECM's to give it a go. I've found that pining, as well as fan running, can be fickle on my Uly. So your result does not surprise me. Last weekend I retarded the timing on my by 6degs, and I could not get it to ping, either. However, the performance suffered and "it seemed to be running even hotter." I base that statement on the fact that the fan came on sooner and never shut off during the entire ride... go figure. So, back to stock timing, and wait for Buell to come up with a fix. |
