| Author |
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Jim_sb
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 04:19 pm: | 
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Treadmarsks,
Two things.
1. Nice bike.
2. Those Acerbis brush guards aren't as sturdy as they look. I know, I trashed a set on my DRZ in short order. I've got the remains in my garage. Now I have a set of Cycra's which I prefer. Not that I haven't done my best to trash those too. <g> Come to think of it I just flattened one of the frame tubes right THROUGH my White Bros. Skid Plate. You might say I hit that rock pretty hard. <g> You know what they say - "If you're not crashing you're riding too slow!".
Regards,
Jim in Santa Barbara |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 04:58 pm: |
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I have to think that this partnership with Rotax will render a sporting V-Twin for the street.
My fingers are crossed.  |
Adrian_8
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 06:01 pm: |
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Like how can I get my Tuono V-twin in the ULY? Now that would put a perm-grin on... |
Jmhinkle
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 06:06 pm: |
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My thoughts exactly Chad. KTM SuperDuke is one tasty machine to me. All the more reason to move out of the HD dealers too. I have to agree with Adrian_8 about where they are sold. My local dealer sucks to deal with and the good one where I bought my bike is pretty far away if I just need something quickly. I pretty much live through online shopping because of it. |
Treadmarks
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 06:59 am: |
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Thanks Jim.
The Acerbis are only to help keep the cagers mirrors from activating my front brake lever. That, and they also make a good attachment point for the hyper bright LED strips that I use for blinkers. |
Treadmarks
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 07:14 am: |
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I have to think that this partnership with Rotax will render a sporting V-Twin for the street.
Shwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing.
Now thats what I'm looking forward to. 
I'm not in the market for a featherweight high strung MX machine, but if I was-there are some badass bikes out there already to choose from.
But take a Buell v-twin, 900-1200cc, and stuff it into a more off road worthy chassis, dual sport or motard and I would jump on it-big time.
And I would rather buy it online, or at a walmart than to have to go through the HD Stealer network. |
Snowscum
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 09:04 am: |
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Paochow
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 09:48 am: |
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I don't quite understand why they would make a pure dirtbike, as the utility is limited IMHO. I also would be interested in a lightweight, reliable dual sport.
+1 on the Acerbis, my friend shattered one in a pretty low speed crash/tip over. I've been running the similarly priced, but much stronger Tusk guards. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 09:58 am: |
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I don't quite understand why they would make a pure dirtbike, as the utility is limited IMHO. I also would be interested in a lightweight, reliable dual sport.
Test mule?
VW W8 as test bed for VW W12 |
Jmhinkle
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 10:25 am: |
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"VW W8 as test bed for VW W12"
Actually the W12 was formed from mating 2 vr6 engines together. The W8 idea came after the w12 and is quite different from the other two because of the balancing requirements. Not quite a good example, but the right idea.
I think what Fatty meant and my personal take is that they started with the dirtbike because it gets the name known in the circles. If they create a good dirtbike that has some success on the dirt scene, it will market easily and bring in the customer base. Then it will also serve as the basis for the offspring such as a dual sports and/or super motards. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:02 am: |
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Agreed.
They won't have to fiddle with EPA requirements, DOT requirements, etc. They can enter dirt bike racing much easier thanks to the one year exemption, and dirt racing will for darn sure tax the engine and chassis. I can't think of a better place to try to break something (including a few bones!). |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 01:23 pm: |
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So the customer is the durability tester? Hope they put a nice warranty on it. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 01:29 pm: |
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On a first year product, the customer is always the tester. I know many people who won't buy the first year of a vehicle.
Just look at the Ulysses. The '07 model received several updates over the '06. Take a look at the XBRR race bike. They had to make several changes to it after it broke during races.
It's the nature of manufacturing. You never find all the bugs no matter how hard you try. That's what a warranty is for. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 01:37 pm: |
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>>>On a first year product, the customer is always the tester.
While not entirely inaccurate, that's really pretty much a "wive's tale" in this day and age.
I just bought a new Mercedes-Benz that has been in production for nearly 10 years. It arrived with the "2006 Updates and Improvements" and had a recall before it had 500 miles on it.
There type and methods now used to test motorcycles, from durability to crash characteristics, are nothing short of an amazing display of the current level of technology.
By the way. . . I am eager to dump my 2 year old computer to get one with the bugs worked out of it . . .
The customer is most certainly NOT the test rider. |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 01:41 pm: |
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I've had two first year Buell models, both were completely reliable. I have confidence. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 01:50 pm: |
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Court, hopefully you took my statements accurately. I wasn't saying that Buell or any other manufacturer uses customers as test mules, but they do rely on them for improvements. Buell does a wonderful job on implementing changes based on customer feedback.
I have no issues with my Ulysses other than the dang engine shaking like a wet dog at idle. Everything else is great. I've made a few changes for my personal taste, but the bike is darn near perfect as delivered. The only thing I'd like to have from the '07 bike is the upgraded oil pump since I thrash my Uly pretty good. More efficient lubrication can't hurt. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 03:15 pm: |
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Yes, I took your statement accurately and in the spirit of discussion.
________________________________________
quote:
but they do rely on them for improvements. Buell does a wonderful job on implementing changes based on customer feedback.
________________________________________
That's dead on accurate. Buell has quietly done some things, some more visible than others, that are absolutely off the charts innovative.
I am really proud of the way Buell almost aggressively goes looking for feedback from customers.
The classic, to date, is the amber heel guards. That is a Harvard Business School story. Customer posts problem at 3:45PM on Wednesday afternoon, at 8:00AM Thursday Buell has an engineer at the vendors weeding stuff out, next to Franklin to check everything in inventory waiting to ship, calls to dealers who have the product in inventory and calls to dealers who have made sales. . .
Customer registers concern - - - 36 hours - - - every unit made, in process, in stock or sold has been checked.
That, and I concede it ain't the norm. . . is AMAZING.
Doesn't happen in every case and something’s, say the lights, require a great deal of analysis, research and engineering.
What it is . . . is a strong statement about the Buell mindset.
If you REALLY want to piss Erik Buell off tell him . . . "lighten up, it's only 1 out of 8,000 bikes".
He'll go ballistic . . . he's never lost his T&A (Tests and Analysis you gutter minded filth!) mindset. . . EVERYTHING happens for a reason. . there is NO ANOMALY.
I totally dig the way this company thinks. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 03:43 pm: |
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I'd have to say, I do too.
I like the personal attention folks get when they do have an issue. It was wonderful to meet Erik, Abe, and the many folks that bolt our bikes together at the factory. I watched a Ulysses being built from start to finish and spoke with each and ever employee down the line during the process. They were all very friendly. I even enjoyed having lunch with a few of them.
I've never had that experience anywhere with anything I've ever owned.
I get the feeling that even after the warranty expires, Buell is still going to stand behind their product. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 04:42 pm: |
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quote:"lighten up, it's only 1 out of 8,000 bikes".
I feel his pain. For the stuff I do, that would represent 1,875 customer issues...
...Per day...
Its hard to wrap your head around it initially... but once you do, and have bled out over it a few times and had enough senior executives demand you be fired, it changes the way your brain works forever. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 04:54 pm: |
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Court, I think this discussion has come up before regarding BAS, Fan, etc. I don't believe that ANY product EriK puts his name on hasn't been tested to death and found worthy. The tests are designed to accommodate any imaginable use of the product.
Realistically, the product isn't "battle tested" until you put it in the hands of us knuckle dragger consumers. We sometimes use the product is ways unintended. Sometimes we use them as intended but components behave unexpectedly. We have larger collective imaginations.
I don't feel like a test mule, but in buying the first iteration of any product, I expect improvements to come as the "battle testing" continues. A second or third year product will by necessity be better than the initial version.
To me what is cool is getting to see that improvement cycle take place in a matter of weeks rather than years.
I can't imagine another large scale manufacturer doing what Buell does. |
Jim_sb
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 05:10 pm: |
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A fuel in the frame dirt bike (assuming Buell is considering such a thing) could be problematic for my dirt bike riding for 2 reasons.
1. Stock dirt bike tanks are too small. No where near enough fuel for extended riding in the desert. Typical stock tanks are easily replaced with "desert" tanks. A frame would not be so simple to replace! OTOH give the frame 4 gallons of capacity and you've got reasonable trail riding range. This would not be an issue for a pure MX bike.
2. In case I haven't mentioned it I crash my dirt bike "as necessary". I question whether a fuel in the frame tank would stand up to the abuse. I do mean ABUSE seen by many dirt bikes. This may or may not be an issue for a MX bike.
Give me 4 gallons of gas, a license plate, something 290 lbs. (preferably 250) or less, a good suspension and it's party time in the desert. And the mountains. The rocks. The sand washes. The trees. Haven't tried mud yet. They don't make much of it out here!
Jim in Santa Barbara |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 05:41 pm: |
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Ok, back on track. THere was an image that was shown to dealers and reps at the winter dealer meeting for the quickest of glimpses.... Does anyone have it? I can accept that it is an artist concept. I can accept that it wont be made for two years or so, and that there will be some changes before full production. But that being aside, My piggy bank is starting to wonder why it is going for a new bike instead of pushing more accessories to the ones in the garage |
Ejc
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 06:39 pm: |
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Rubberdown,
There's no such thing as an MXer with a warranty.
I hope Buell realizes that MX bikes age in dog years. R&D will be busy. Otherwise, this will be a flash in the pan. Affiliation with HD should provide the deep pockets to keep it afloat. |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 07:49 pm: |
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Ejc, I always though that and while it's no MX'er, my HP2, which I have raced and BMW bills as a competition bike, came with a 3 year total warranty (and road/trail side assist). If Buell could do something, it sure would help sales! I think KTM provides at least a small warranty. |
Ejc
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 12:24 am: |
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My apologies RD. I was unaware of the KTM warranty. I was going by the Japanese four. Certainly, any warranty would be nice.
I wonder who is going to service this bike? It seems Buell savvy HD mechanics are the minority. And now, a dirt bike? Although, I must say, the folks at Kutter HD have done a fine job with my bike.
By the way,RD, your living large with that HP2! |
Jmhinkle
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 01:25 am: |
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I didn't realize that none of the Japanese four come with warranty anymore? You used to get a 90 day or six month one on the dirt bikes. Not anymore I guess. Can't say I blame them for the way those bikes are treated. If Buell puts the standard 2 year warranty on it, that will be pretty darn good then. |
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