| Author | Message | ||
     Ihavemanyfleas |
Just thought I would add my name to the list of pingers. all Stock 06. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
My dealer checked my bike for intake leaks with the digital technician. Said my bike didn't have any leaks. Can a dig tech do that? | ||
| Davo |
They most likely used the digital tech to read the AFV. If the AFV is within the range, considering the altitude of your area, then they can rule out an intake leak. The best way to check for an intake leak is the propane test which is described in the factory service manual. If you have AFV at or above 110 then an intake leak may exist. I had a slight intake leak and the AFV was 105. My altitude is about 400'. | ||
| Davo |
Installed re-flashed (07) ECM. Set timing straight up (factory setting). The outside temperature was 32F. The fan never came on but garage my arrival temps were right at 400F. The engine pinged severely under moderate load and high rpm (4K and over) light load. Its not the ECM. I retarded the timing back to around 8 late and the bike cranked better, ran better, sounded better, had more power and never pinged. I noticed the 07 ECM tended to float down to idle slower than the 06. The 06 with the timing late felt idles down instantly. | ||
| Murraebueller |
Amazing- I wonder if there are some CPS units out there that were improperly manufactured/assembled? Are all of the pinging bikes '06 models? Stock? Davo- please keep us advised of the cylinder pressure readings. Are you going to do the propane intake leak test? How do the plugs look after the bike has been pinging or in general? | ||
| Davo |
I am stock with the exception of a right side scoop, but that is a recent addition. The plugs looked a little hot but not lean. I replaced them and I will do a plug read when my 12mm adapter arrives. I did a propane test months ago and passed. Then I replaced the intake seals just to be sure. It really feels like compression. The engine is getting too hot too quick. It was 32F last night and after riding about ten-fifteen minutes around town, I was at 400F with a right side scoop! What is happening with the heat on the plugs is that the minimal advance at idle makes me real late when I retard the entire curve in order to reduce the mid and top end advance. I would like to dial in 8 into the curve at idle and then retard the whole curve 8 degrees. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Davo, My bike idle floats down ever since I had the 07' reflash done because I had opened up the airbox cover like an 07 airbox. I took it to the dealer and showed them the idle situation and they put it on the digital tech and told me that it tested to have no leaks. I'll probably be taking it back in the spring when the weather warms up as it is near zero degrees right now. I've got frost bite damage on my cheeks from riding in below zero weather when I was in high school. I've got a couple of cars these days for zero weather. | ||
| Chadhargis |
The interesting thing about this thread is that some bikes ping badly and others are fine. My bike runs absolutely flawlessly. I've got about 10,000 miles on it, and the only time it's ever pinged was when I was sitting in traffic on a VERY hot day then when the traffic cleared, in frustration, I gave it WOT from a stand still. It pinged like mad. Within a mile or so of getting cooling wind to the engine, it didn't ping anymore. There has got to be a reason some do and some don't. Is it manfacturing tolerances? I don't know. Hope you guys find the answer. | ||
| Davo |
My pinging problem discovered! Engine at operating temperature Tested at 6 revolutions and 7 revolutions while the throttle plate was wide open: Rear cylinder 170-175 psi Front cylinder 175-185 psi Remedy, Relieve or retard now or rebuild later. | ||
| Murraebueller |
Davo- Congratulations! The pressures seem a little high. After talking with several contacts I have, I have been reassured that if you take the bike to a dealer they will solve the issue. For example, if you brought it here, we would confirm your cylinder pressure numbers, confirm the pinging, then call the factory and get approval to tear the engine down. A second call would be placed when the engine is apart for diagnostic assistance/confirmation, warranty approval authorization, parts would be ordered and then replaced under warranty. The process can happen very quickly. There must be a dealer near you who can do this. You should call customer service and let them know. Murrae | ||
| Teeps |
Murraebueller, What do you project the fix to be? | ||
| Davo |
Murrae, Thanks for the heads up. I would rather go through it myself. I am not sure if I will shim the cylinders, use a different head gasket or just relieve the heads. I am looking at another bike so I don't know what I am going to do yet. Until then, I will run the timing late. I noticed the pinging being mid and high range. That means the cams are making the cylinder pressures even higher than static numbers reveal. Maybe as high as 11.5 or even 12:1? When I pull it down I will post the numbers. Thanks for all of your help. By the way, the plugs look great now and the ECM seams to be pulling better. (Message edited by davo on January 12, 2007) | ||
| Murraebueller |
Teeps- It's impossible to tell without the bike in hand. It could be as simple as a head that was manufactured incorrectly, a head gasket that was over torqued resulting in too much crush, a CPS that is out of spec, carbon in the chamber, etc. Or a combination of all of the above. That's why I'm encouraging Davo to go to a dealer, not to mention the help that other owners could gain. The factory says that the pinging issue is extremely limited and that they have been able to correct every case they have worked on. This is actually the only site I've seen the issue on. Davo- Have you tried the water mist to remove carbon yet?mMight make sense to try it before tearing it down. Let me know if I can help. Murrae | ||
| Davo |
Murrae, It might be carbon but I don't think it is. I have had pinging problems ever since the bike hit 3500 rpm right after break in. I will do a water treatment and recheck the numbers soon. The bike is running great with the CPS 8 degrees late. Unfortunately it popped the horn fuse and through a 21 code today. It must be another short. I would like to get the bike road/trailer ready for Daytona and I have quite a bit of other work that needs attention first. I will keep accurate records when I preform my top end rebuild and publish the results. The dealer here does not have a long Buell track record and as you know by now, I would rather wrench on a bike than ride it. Thanks again! | ||
| 44mag2 |
Chadhargis, Would you mind getting your compression measured when it is convenient? To establish that the compression is the problem, we need to measure a non-pinger to confirm that it has a lower compression than a pinger. | ||
| Brat |
I found my pinging decreased significantly when running Gasohol 95, that's with full factory race kit! | ||
| Retired_cop |
Had work done on my stock 06 last week for a dead rear cylinder problem that turned out to be a bad sparkplug wire issue. At that time the cylinders checked at 125 front and rear. The bike has only had a mild ping on hot days or under hard acceleration, which happens regularly. Timing and AFV set to stock specs. Hope this helps. | ||
| Davo |
FYI for the DIY'er, in order to do a compression check, you need a 14mm-12mm adapter. The only one I could find was at JC Whitney. I had to buy the InnoCompress OHC Plus kit. Most compression check gauges only come with a 14mm adapter. I think some of the cylinder leak down kits have the adapter line but I couldn't put my hands on one. Follow the FSM procedure and please post the numbers. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Anyone got a compression gauge I can borrow? | ||
| Murraebueller |
I'll measure both of our bikes as soon as I can get them out of the driveway and to the shop. Bear in mind that we're at 7000' here so I'll check and see if there is a conversion table. | ||
| Sokota |
How is the water mist treatment done ? how , much , how long , rpm's.....? | ||
| Davo |
Some people use a spray bottle. I used a dixie cup yesterday on a 360 AMC. Get the engine to operating temperature and a small trickle or spray momentarily with the rpms up a little, maybe 3K. Do not put in so much that you hydraulic the head! Let the engine catch up and then repeat a couple of times. In a 72 inch engine I would use a spray bottle with a coarse spray. Let me add that I do not think that carbon is my problem. My bike is wound tighter than a ten day clock and carbon doesn't stand a chance in the combustion chambers. I will run the water test to be fair and to serve objectivity. | ||
| Murraebueller |
If there is anyone on this thread who wishes to be directly in touch with the factory over any pinging issue, they can forward their name, email, physical address, phone number and a brief description of the issue to me and I will make sure that the appropriate folks at the factory get the information. Don't send your VIN- They will get it from you when they contact you. Makes no difference where you live, mileage, DIY'er,previous bad experience with a dealer, etc. My "official" email is: mhaynes@ridenow.com | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
can't seem to send mail for some odd reason, but my email addy is ihavemanyfleas@yahoo.com... if that's not enough to add me to the list... pm me... | ||
| Murraebueller |
Any other takers? Come om folks, for all the griping about the factory, now is your chance. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Okay, Murrae. You've got mail. Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Davo |
Murrae, I assume that they already have my information. They have never contacted me directly regarding my correspondence in November. Should I count on a phone call or letter from them? | ||
| Murraebueller |
Davo-I submitted your info just in case. This request comes from fairly high up in the food chain. I'm definitely interested to see what happens. The comments that everyone is sending are very much the same. You could send me a description of the issue with your bike if you want and I'll forward it. | ||
| Murraebueller |
So far I've submitted all the info I have received from the thread. The info has been forwarded to the proper internal folks from my contact with a "respond with utmost urgency" attached. Please post whatever happens here. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Murrae, thanks! Sent you my info.  |
