| Author | Message | ||
     Nutsosane |
My Uly is a pinger; has been since the 1500 mile mark. I diligently waited for the complaints to ring loud enough to elicit a response from Buell. Many of you have chimed in with possible antidotes and to be quite honest there are so many theories I was holding off until there was a collective agreement. Murraebueller offered an invitation to contact Buell and that was all the push I needed. I made the call and was put in touch with a very enthusiastic Cust. Serv. Rep who got right to business. The Uly was taken immediately following that conversation to my dealer; Roanoke Valley HD Buell. Two days later I received a call from Buell Technical Services and was told the tech found the timing 4 degrees advanced. Many of you have stated this is the issue but there are other possible attributes. I wanted my bike to be officially diagnosed and in line for the next fix should the need arise. Step two, should the ping return is a leakdown compression test. Picked the bike up yesterday and was able to talk to the tech (a fellow Badwebber:Buellrcr) he confirmed the findings and agreed with the next step should the Uly have a revisit of the dreaded PING. Zoomed out of the parking lot and headed for a blisteringly cold ride in search of the rattle that destroys pistons. A mile out I missed a downshift; finding the shifter-linkage bolt had gone missing. A call to the dealership produced my trusty Buell Tech in short order bearing said missing bolt. Pinging Uly's get road side assistance too! I cannot have had a better experience and I sincerely hope the ping is gone. Should it re-appear I have full confidence our team will find the result we desire. Thank you. NUTS | ||
| Lovehamr |
Man it's nice to hear of someone having a good experience at a dealer. | ||
| Davo |
Four degrees of advance will cause pinging. Some of the pingers are having high compression readings, 170 psi and higher after following the factory service manual procedure. If you were four degrees early and also had high compression your pinging would have been excessive and perpetual during even moderate and light engine load. I feel confident that they found your problem. Buell is aware of the problems with the "severe" pingers and they claim they need a case number and to pull the engine down for an "official" observation. I know of at least one BadWeber that did exactly that and it appears Buell learned nothing from the contact. The problem is obvious to me. I would like someone to answer this question though: If the ET is at least 320F and at idle (1050), then exactly what is the advance of the front spark in degrees of advance of TDC? The dealer didn't know and factory couldn't tell me. | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Dude, I have pretty much given up on dealers. I'll just ride the bike till it falls apart and enjoy it. Of course this is what I say now, let's see what happens this summer.... | ||
| Crusty |
Not all dealers suck. There are more good ones than it would seem. It's just that competent dealers may get a passing mention, while the bad ones are loudly announced. It's kind of like the bikes themselves. Buells have become some of the most trouble free and lowest maintenance bikes available; but if you read the forums, all you hear are the stories of problems. I have my own horror stories about bad dealerships ("Just 'cause you made an appointment, it doesn't mean we're gonna work on your bike"), but I've also seen dealerships that excel. I remember the Service manager who bought me lunch, because it took a couple of hours to fix my bike, when he told me it would be done in less than an hour. Some dealers really suck, but I think we're starting to see more of the good shops surfacing. | ||
| Teeps |
It would be great if it's as simple as retarding the base timing, to cure Uly pinging. I suspect there's more to it than base timing. I think that Buell just goofed on the IG mapping. Because there's some serious "magic" going on with regard to IG spark control on the Buell engines. I predict that an ECM update will eventually be the fix. But that will take time as any change Buell does to the mapping will have to be certified by the G'ment. (I have started a customer contact at Buell CR, regarding my Ulysses' pining issue.) | ||
| Davo |
Teeps, It is a simple as retarding the base if your compression is higher than normal. In my case about 7-9 degrees! The 07 reflash will not fix it. I know because I have tried it. The only problem with retarding the entire curve is that at rpm less than 1500 will make the combustion chambers, particularly the exhaust side, hotter but now where near the heat that would be generated by pinging at all the other rpm. I have run mine late for 5K and it has NEVER pinged at that setting. Good power and the plugs look good. | ||
| Teeps |
Davo I'm not arguing your success, I'm only pointing out that there might be other things to consider. | ||
| Davo |
Point taken. I agree with your logic and I agree that there are some regulatory issues that are in the way in reference to a reflash. I also think there is as a genuine uncertainty as to what the problem is on the part of Buell. Until then, retard or rebuild. 1mm = 3 degrees. (Message edited by davo on February 05, 2007) (Message edited by davo on February 05, 2007) | ||
| Cobradave93 |
Mine's at dealer now for this. I'll let you know what they find. | ||
| Bearly |
I'm moving to Roanoke! | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
Mine went in yesterday for this. The dealer has been great, but they weren't really 'aware of any pinging bikes.' I'll have to follow up with more on my experience as it unfolds. | ||
| Steveford |
Davo, At 320 it sould go to zero. The timing on the XBs has to be dead on for them to run right. | ||
| Teeps |
}Steveford Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 Davo, At 320 it sould go to zero. The timing on the XBs has to be dead on for them to run right. Do you know if the timing retards to something ATDC as the temp rises beyond 320F? If Zero is where the timing retard stops. The solution for setting the timing accurately SHOULD BE; set the timing with the engine at operating temperature. | ||
| Davo |
Steveford, I know that the ECM has "zero" advance at idle/320F. Are you sure that the spark is actually firing at TDC on the flywheel at idle/320F? If not then "zero" isn't 0 degrees BTDC. I think "zero" is 7-9 degrees BTDC!! Teeps, The timing has never been later than "zero" during all of my testing and recording of logs. My pursuit is to identify and publish the initial setting of the CPS in order to understand what "initial" timing must be added to the ECM number in order to know where the spark is actually firing in reference to the flywheel. I put a light on the engine so I got an idea of where it is. Where it is and where it should be are two completely different events in time. (Message edited by davo on February 08, 2007) (Message edited by davo on February 08, 2007) | ||
| Teeps |
Davo Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 Teeps, The timing has never been later than "zero" during all of my testing and recording of logs. Even with the T/plate retarded? I find that hard to believe... I guess that confirms my thoughts about some serious magic going on in that ECM. How do "it" know? | ||
| Davo |
Teeps, No, What I meant to say was that the ECM never retards beyond zero. If you move the CPS the ECM doesn't have any way of knowing the CPS has been moved therefore you can retard past TDC. I am about 2 ATDC at idlle/320F. | ||
| Nutsosane |
Bearly, Drop in the Storm Fronts. Roanoke Valley Fast&Loose. Usually it's quite lively! Glad to hear we'll have another 'Noker. NUTS | ||
| Teeps |
Davo, My sanity is restored hearing that your timing is ATDC, when at operating temp, with the timing plate retarded. Ever tried tipping in some toluene as an octane booster? | ||
| Davo |
Teeps, There is quite a bit of go fast fuel around the shop but I bought the Uly for a different purpose. I want a bike that will run on pump gas, has good range, quiet, comfortable, durable, tall, multi purpose and has some storage compartments. I am looking at a water cooled single cylinder with low compression to get around the county. I will loose some speed but the bike has great range and durability. I have an XL that I have tweeked and when I have the need for torque it is always there ready to roll. The XL has ten spark curves with a selector on the side so I can use any fuel from sludge to rocket fuel. | ||
| Teeps |
Yea, the bike should run on all available pump gas without additives. | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
Just got mine back from the dealer. They say they checked the timing, and it was fine, but weren't able to reproduce the pinging, and therefore wouldn't do anything about it... The advice was to ride it, get it to ping, and Bring it in with my observations.. I have 5k on it now, and it's been pinging since it had 1500 or so. I guess my next step is to contact customer service at buell? Do they have an official fix yet? | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
Took it out for a spin tonight, and my mirror was flopping around. That and it backfired for the first time... Can we say quality control? I mean, I love this bike, but all the dealership bad-mouthing probably has me a little on the worried side. (Message edited by ihavemanyfleas on February 09, 2007) | ||
| Davo |
Ihavemanyfleas, Do you know if they checked the compression? If so do you know the numbers? I suspect that you have a Uly with higher than normal compression. If this is the case there are only a few ways to correct the problem. Top end rebuild or retard the timing. Buell is aware that there might be a compression issue. They claim they need to authenticate the high compression and then determine what to do. I plan on pulling mine down after Daytona. I will publish my findings and then the cat will be out of the bag. Until then use fuel conditioner and/or retard the timing. | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
And the fun begins! (Message edited by ihavemanyfleas on February 10, 2007) | ||
| Nutsosane |
Fleas, contact Murraebueller. He was instrumental in involving Buell Customer Service. Once the directive from Cust Serv hits the dealer they can take appropriate action to find and fix the problem. I did not want to hear "we couldn't produce the ping so..." therefore I involved Cust. Service and WE now have a plan of action. NUTS | ||
| Warbaby |
I've been following this "issue" for many months at BadWeb. Personally, I haven't experienced any pinging (last summer & fall I ran the snot out of my new Uly in the heat on 93 Octane Shell) but I haven't ridden much since adding a Drummer and a `07 air box without reflash. So, who knows how it will run with my mods in the heat...but I'm ready to find out as soon as temps start averaging 45-50. It's great that you guys are working on this and I salute your efforts. But, I think Buell should have an effective, readily available, technical solution procedure for the problem--like a tech checklist Step 1, Step 2, etc. for isolating and correcting it. Pre-ignition, and worse, detonation both suck!!! I love my Buell but I wouldn't love it so much if it was a bad pinger and if I had to solve the problem. | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
Murrabueller has my info. I haven't been contacted yet as a result, but I plan on doing that this week. It has become more andmore obvious that Buell knows some of us a have a problem, and have a fix. The dealers need to know this. Expecting riders to go directly to buell first isn't the intuitive thing... if I have a problem, I'm going to take it to the folks that service the bike. These are they guys that need to know there is a problem. Why it's only being addressed between buell and the riders leaves this very important part of the buell experience out: The dealer. I want to ask again why the dealer isn't aware of a fix. I'll follow up on this as soon as I am able to take care of it. Recently, I have seen more posts about this being fixed, and I look forward to confirming this... | ||
| Anonymous |
The readily available fix is to set the timing per the service manual. Why that has not been happening in the field until Buell Customer service comes along is unknown. It is in the service requirements. | ||
| Davo |
Anyone, If the engine is at least 320F and the engine is at idle (1050) and the ECM shows zero advance on #1, Then where is the engine firing relative to the TDC mark on the flywheel? or where should it be? (Message edited by davo on February 11, 2007) | ||
| Davo |
If this remains a question then all hope of a solution is lost. A procedure should not replace a setting. In this case a procedure takes so much precedent that the setting is not known. It is difficult to trouble shoot a procedure if you do not know what the procedure is trying to achieve. |
