| Author | Message | ||
     Gtmg |
I know this has been discussed before but as relatively new owner,2 months, I would like to get some opinions .I have gotten a little frustrated until I read here. I have the swimming feeling. Definitely takes some of the fun out and doesn't give me the confidence I should have with this bike after 1500 miles. I have tried two different settings on the suspension and checking air in the tires. Here are my questions: 1. Is there anything else I should try with the suspension? I have read some have set it up for a really light rider and that seemed to help. I weigh 205 lbs. 2. It seems that any tire that the bike is changed to eliminates the swim feeling? Is there anyone out there who has had multiple tires that can verify this? 3. Tire recommendations seem to be Pirellis Syncs, Avon Azaros and Michelin Pilot Roads. I also see some references to the Dulop Qualifiers. Can somebody tell me what the differences are without tire manufacturer fluff? I ride only on the street by the way. 4. Is it better to wait until the tires are worn or just go ahead and make an early change? thanks | ||
| 12x_infatuation |
The only swim i have experienced is when behind traffic & the air turbulance is upset. The short wheelbase & steep fork angle accentuate everything so all i can suggest is OVERTAKE! | ||
| Etennuly |
I've got over 10,000 on the D616 front. I put the Scorpion Sinc on the rear at 6,000, and I will put them on the front and rear at 12,000 or so. They were on my City-X and I loved them. That swimming feeling is said to be caused by the center groove and its solid ridges on each side of it. I'm going to wear it out before I change it 'cause it's mine and I paid for it. A riding buddy of mine changed his at 600 miles because it made him uncomfortable with that feeling. He runs a stiffer setting on the front and rear than I do. He said that the Scorpion Sinc cleared it up and he's happy with it. If you are never going off road you don't need that more aggressive tread pattern, so any of the sport bike street tires that many here will recommend, should suit your uses. I don't go off-roading with mine, other than some gravel roads. I am so impressed with the Scorpion Sinc tires because of their dry road grip and they work in the rain like Indy rain tires. The best I've ever had on the street in the rain. If you wheelie often you notice it less!  | ||
| Madduck |
Have you tried less obvious things such as a jacket without baggy sleeves. That wide flat handlebar gives you a huge amount of leverage on turning the front wheel. Try riding it with just the throttle hand for steering. Coordinating the motion of both hands with a "sensitve" front end is a skill not quickly learned. I have a nephew that borrows my bikes once in awhile and the Buell is the hardest for him to ride quickly because he moves from a Yamaha 600. Wide handlebar, quick steering and sticky tires can be a bad combination till you get used to it. Let someone else ride it, tech at dealership??, to see what they think. I've ridden a couple of "swimming" Buells and haven't had a problem. The Scorps handle much better in my opinion especially in wind. Any sportbike tire will do tho. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The fault lies 100% with the D616. You could put a hemorrhoid donut on the front and eliminate the swim! I am a Fat Bastard (230lbs 48in chest 6') There is nowhere to hide from the wind. I did everything to relax at higher speeds. I strapped down the jacket sleeves. Nothing kept the swimming from happening.......until I replaced the tire. Why do you think the D616 had only a single year run on the Uly. It was a bad choice. (Message edited by ft_bstrd on October 22, 2006) | ||
| M2nc |
The problem is fixable. I had the same problem and it is gone now. FB is right the D616 is the problem and as soon as you change the front tire out it will go away. 1. Yes, the tighter the preload on the rear and softer the preload on the front, the worse the problem will be. Be sure to set the preloads even or soften up the rear preload until you get the D616 off the bike. The greater the rear preload in the rear the more reactive the bike will be. Right now you want less reactive. 2. So far I have had Pirelli Diablo Stradas and Continental Road Attack/ContiForce. I did not like the Diablos, lost traction too easy, followed every groove in the road. So far I really like the Continentals that are on the bike now. My suggestions is to get a tire with a flat profile. It makes the bike more neutral which is a bad thing on most bikes, but with the Uly's wide handle bars and radical steering geometry the more neutral the tire is on center the better. The Contis are great, so are the Dunlops D205. I run D205 and D207 on the M2 and they are too neutral for the M2, but I may try them on the Uly since it is much more reactive than the M2. 3. I guess I answered all but the issue with the manufacturers. Here is my quick check for what tire would suit you best, categorize them by what you want to do with the bike? If you want to keep the off-road ability, then your choice is limited, Scorpion Sync, MT-60 or stay with the D616. The MT-60 is a bit radical and more for real off-roading. The Syncs will probably do fine for all around on & off road. If you want sport bike handling and plan to push to the limits then you need tires that stick at all cost, especially tire life. Dunlop, Pirelli, Michelin, Avon, Metzler all have good tires for this purpose. One comment on the Pirellis and Metzlers though, they tend to be a bit slick on wet pavement. The Dunlops have always done me well there. If you want to tour the bike or just want a tire that will live longer than 3500 miles on average, then a Pirelli Diablo Strada, Michelin Pilot Road, Metzler Roadtec Z6 (same as the Strada), Dunlop D205 or D220. My personal experience, I got about 30% better wear out of the Stradas than the D616, but only marginally better than the D205 on the M2. I prefer the D205 to the Strada, it has more grip in all conditions and more stable. The Strada front tire also flat spots quickly something the D205 did not do. It makes for some dicing handling after some wear. I have no experience with the Michelins and I do not have enough mileage on the Conti to tell how they will wear. 4. I waited until they wore out, but am glad I am not using them now. Your bank account and patience will make that decision for you. I hope this helps. (Message edited by M2nc on October 22, 2006) | ||
| Stevem123 |
The most stable tires I have found so far are the Metzeler Roadtec Z6. I've run the Avons and they were good, the D616's suck, and the Pirelli Syncs wear out too fast for me, but the progressive contour of the Roadtecs are far superior than any other tire as far as stability. I'm on my 5th set now. The last two sets were the roadtecs. I like them a lot. They feel funny at first because the bike tends to turn-in much faster but once you get used to them they just ROCK!!! BC Steve | ||
| Brat |
I've got Syncs, they helped, a lot, then a Ceebaileys 16" screen, the combination seems to have got rid of any "swim"! The "swim" seems to have been caused by responsive chassis/short wheelbase, rider feedback (wind) plus tread pattern? I still get dirty air from trucks etc causing deviation but like all the positives that the chassis/suspension gives! | ||
| Tel |
Got my preload and damping set per manual for my weight. Almost completely eliminated the problem. As the tyres have worn the problem lessened. 4500kms. When I change mine I'll be going for the Syncs | ||
| Jmhinkle |
I've developed a squirrely turn in problem lately. I thought it had something to do with the major temperature change lately and the tires not warming up enough. I'm not completely sure of that though. What happens is that when I first start around a corner, the bike feels like it starts to slide out, but then hooks back up with a little jerk. Problem started around 2200 miles on the 616's. The only thing that I have changed is I stiffened up the suspension for a trip a few weeks ago with loaded luggage, and have not softened it back up. I will try dropping back a setting and see if it goes away. Anyone else ever notice this feeling on the 616's? | ||
| Jlnance |
jmhinkle - That happens to me if I leave the preload set to the "with girlfriend" setting and ride with out her. | ||
| Jlnance |
I've got over 10,000 on the D616 front. I changed my front at around 6000 miles. It had plenty of tread left but it was cupped. It made a HUGE difference in the handling of the bike. | ||
| Az_m2 |
Scorpion Syncs transformed my Uly. I had the headshake and swimming. The bike is amazing now. I'm just getting to the end of treadlife on them. 8k out of the rear and I'm hoping to get 10k out of the front. | ||
| Orangeulius |
2 things mentioned by others. As Etennuly mentioned in his earlier post, we switched bikes while riding one day. The stiffer suspension settings on mine and the pirelli sync really do make a difference. As Brat mentioned in his post, I also went to a taller windscreen and didn't realize how much of a difference this made until Etennuly and I switched bikes. I have been complaining about how noisy my helmet was. I noticed when riding his bike with the stock windscreen that helmet noise went down a ton. The tradeoff? I switched back to my stock windscreen the other day. I was doing 70 mph, wind was about 5-10 mph and the front end wiggle about made me pull over! So bottom line, Syncs, stiffer suspension setting and a tall windscreen do it for me. I wear earplugs to cut the noise I get from the windscreen turbulence that is now at my helmet, not at my chest and arms. Good luck! Oh and if you have the dealer put your new front tire on, have them check that the steering head resistance is within spec. (Message edited by orangeulius on October 22, 2006) (Message edited by orangeulius on October 22, 2006) | ||
| Fastfxrs |
The 616 dunlop front really did suck, but until I made some suspension adjustments and got used to a much lighter grip on the bars, I had similar but much less glaring behavior with the Michelin pilot roads. Backing off on the rear preload is a good starting point. Its an easy enough thing to do on the fly on a straight piece of road so you can feel the difference. I always check when I get home to see where I am on the dial. Using preload to decrease the rake of the front end seems to help a lot. As for tires, I just past 8,000 miles on the Pilot Roads but the front is cupping and the rear is getting a bit squared off(still plenty of tread left though). Thinking about Metzeler Z6's next time. My friend gets unbeleivable mileage out of his on his R1150R. Tim | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
HOW THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS GETTING SO MANY MILES OUT OF TIRES? I got the Avon Azaros in the hope that there would be better distance out of them. With about 2,000 miles, I am hoping to get another 1,000-1,500 miles out of them. The front is fine, but the rear is dying quickly. The factory recommends 36lbs in the front and 42 in the rear cold. I am running that, so I don't think it's a matter of the tires getting too hot. Anyone know of some diamond carbide, teflon, kevlar, carbon fiber tires I can use? | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Hmm, my bike and manual both say 36 front 38 rear Maybe that has something to do with it? | ||
| Teeps |
Ft_, It's simple, reduce the HP applied to the rear skin.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I agree, Birdmanrh. Mine says the same thing, but the manual is based on the tires that came from the factory and are spec'ed accordingly. That is why I got in touch with Avon directly and asked for their spec for the tires on the Uly specifically. Teeps, that is simply not an option. I am looking for real answers not "pie in the sky". Although, I think I've heard this conversation before:  | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Fat, I posted that, went to dinner and realized that you did not have Dunlops anymore. LOL | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
DOH!!!! | ||
| Jmhinkle |
I dropped my settings back from the 200lb range to the one below it and everything is back to normal. That seems odd to me since I did not have an abnormal setting, just a range higher which I probably border line on when I'm geared up anyways. Do the settings take the hard bags into account? I run with all 3 bags all the time, but have my suspension set for my personal dry weight only. If I go any higher in settings, I start getting that wash out feeling in the corners. Any clarification would help. And if it matters, I have 2200 miles on the 616's and they still look pretty close to new. I think I'll change them out of desire before I wear them out. | ||
| Red_chili |
One thing easy to overlook: steering head bearings. Mine were loose-ish when I took the bike in for the 1K service and complained about the swim. It was better but not perfect afterwards. D616s definitely do NOT like rain grooves. Spooky. The front will get replaced when I get a round tuitt. | ||
| Adrian_8 |
Tire mileage...I can't imagine someone getting 6,000+ miles out of the 616's but they do... Just different road surfaces and riding habits.I got 2,500 on the 616's,.. 4,500 on the Syncs, and 5,200 and 5,400 on two sets of Pilot Roads on my ULY. I currently have Azarios. The bike's front end felt better, not the vague swim feel after the 616's were gone. No doubt Buell saw the light and canned the Dunlop contract. I think I like the handling of the Syncs the best but they never would have made it out West and back. The Pilot Roads are sort of neutral handling, just solid and stable. I have not tried the Z-6 or the Stradas as I want a tread in the center for off road stuff. Tires are like chocolate..taste them all then you know which one you like. | ||
| Az_rider |
I just replaced my rear D616 at 6800 miles. I could have easily made it 7000+ miles. All of these miles were in the Arizona summer months. I ran the rear @ 40 lbs, and rode 20% twisties, 20% commuting, and 60% sport touring. The bike swims less with the new rear tire (and no suspension adjustment changes), but it still swims. I am too cheap to replace the front tire until it wears out. Then I will try the Syncs. | ||
| Adrian_8 |
AZ Rider... most of my riding is on chip seal, patched, rough roads at a "sporting pace". You will be glad when the old 616 is gone. I had my Uly in your area this spring...Grand Canyon,(on Pilot Roads) one awesome place I always wanted to see, just spectacular. | ||
| Etennuly |
Ft_b Tire mileage I've been able to get 6000+ miles on rears and 12000+ on fronts on both of my XB Buells. Have you noticed the tread surface on your tires after you ride? Are they melted to a gum like consistency? If so, you ride F#!%@## fast and hard. If you do this all of the time your tires wear out rapidly. I ride fast, but not hard (unless provoked). When I was in my youth, WFO(read WOT)was my normal MO. Tires just wouldn't go more than 2000 miles, chains and sprockets 4000, foot pegs 4000, patch headers 4000(things dragged back then). Obviously your Buell is FUN to ride or you wouldn't be having this problem. The tire mileage issue isn't because of the bike, rather, it is because of what the bike IS! Keep having fun, it'll come to you some day!  | ||
| Chadhargis |
I got 2000 miles out of my rear 616. The front was badly cupped at that mileage. I replaced both of those miserable tires with a set of Diablo Stradas which is the only tire I could ever get more than 3000 miles out of when I had my FJR1300. I've recently put a new rear on. I think I got 4000 miles out of the read Diablo. The front is still on at nearly 8,000 miles on the clock (6,000 on the tire). It's starting to look a little ragged. Plenty of tread in the center, but the sides are getting pretty ragged looking. Of course, here in the great State of Tennessee, unless you are on the Interstate, you can't go more than a few miles without hitting a few bends in the road. Get off the main roads, and it's twisty heaven. Some extreme, especially as you get closer to the mountains. My bikes are for fun. I ride them for entertainment. Puttering around at the speed limit is boring to me, so that contributes to my tires wearing very quickly. Not helped at all by the fact that I'm 6'5" and weight 230lbs without gear (more fully ATGATT). I'm basically a big heavy sail. That rear tire has to push me through the air at 80+ miles per hour and hold mine and the bikes weights in the turns. | ||
| Windrider |
Gtmg, I had the swimming feeling on my Uly when it was new. I was able to overcome it by lightening my grip on the bar. Just let it go, try to barely hold onto it. However, when the D616s wore out at 4.5K miles I put the Pirelli Scorpion Syncs on front and back and was amazed at the difference. The bike is much more stable with the Syncs. I could have run the front D616 longer but it was BADLY cupped at 4.5K miles so I swapped them both as a set. I have about 2.5K miles on the Pirellis now and I think that they will outlast the Dunlops. I see lots of folks post that the Pirellis don't last long enough but I am not seeing that yet. Make sure that you aren't putting any extra inputs into the handlebar. Make sure that your riding gear is not flapping in the wind, especially around your arms. Finally, if you can't adapt to the unusual characteristics of the Dunlops, swap them out and be over it. Good Luck. | ||
| Gtmg |
Ok some thoughts on just changing the front tire to a sync and leaving the rear Dunlop 616 on. I know this is a no on but my tires are just not wearing that badly at 1500 miles and I hate to waste them but I need to get rid of that swimming feeling when I am riding in a straight line. |
