| Author | Message | ||
     Shovelheadtom |
hey guys retard your timing plate 1 degree and no more ping.you will need to reset your idle . i work for hd south and my xb12x runs great with the race kit and this fix. | ||
| Davo |
One degree is just less than .3mm on the plate. Are you sure you didn't go further? | ||
| Shovelheadtom |
hey ! i suck when it comes to this damn haunted magic box but im pretty good with motorsickles.mark your timing where it is.both ends of the scale.yourstarting point write or wrong its ok .scribe on insideof housing .clear clean lines .the timing plate is marked so each long line is 1 degree and each short is 1/2 degree.advance apears upside down . the direction is correct. my girl ran excelentout of the box .the 2000 rpm jitters where there just like every one reports ,but thats ok wiyh me.but just the slightest hint of sound and feel at just over a ton and up.put on the race kit zeroed her out on digi tech and went for a ride alls cool till 70 mph then there's a hand full of washer's in the top end and she flatten's on power . original timing was set at max due to intent or error to start with .extra timing due to race ecm and faster curve come to over advance.at 1 degree retard she may be just a hair on the drag .1/4 to 1/2 degree more advance will be hard nipple's ON. but i dont race her she's my every horse rain or shine every day ! and not squezeing her so tite will be a little easyer on her cause life on the street's here ain't allway's easy ! work 1 degree at a time to start with and if you feel her draggin give her back a 1/2 degree or less till she's right .adjust idle when she's warmed up watch tach for 1000 rpm dead on she'll rise just a bit on her own when she's been romped good when you test her . remember dead max advance hard on the starter drive top end all thing's heat related lot's of advance is lot's of heat ! listen to her feel her then work with her on her they respond very well now go twist her nipple's!!! | ||
| Davo |
There are 14 large marks in just less than 90 degrees of cam position. From my estimate it is about 15-16 large marks for every 90 degrees of cam position. Each degree of cam represents 2 degrees of crank. If you moved the CPS 1 large mark counterclockwise than you are at least nine degree late. That is a about right. I can go to 7.5 to 9 degrees. in order to eliminate the pinging. 1mm=3 degrees. diameter of CPS= 78mm circumference = 245 mm 1 revolution of cam = 720 degrees of crank 245/720=0.3403mm= 1 degree! I measure .127 inches between large marks. That is equal to 3.2258mm= 9+ degrees. I am about 2.5mm late and you are just over 3mm. I checked my dynamic timing with a light and VDSTS software. AT 307F at idle (1050 RPM) my TDC mark is firing straight up. Since your on their team please call Buell Customer Service and tell them about your fix. They think my fix is radical and I keep trying to point out that there is a significant timing problem. You and I are very close to the same remedy and have the same results. By the way when digital tech goes to 5.2 volts on the CPS output I bet your TDC mark is not even visible to the right of the window.......right? 7 degrees is right at the edge. 9 should be past the edge. Davo (Message edited by davo on October 20, 2006) (Message edited by davo on October 20, 2006) (Message edited by davo on October 20, 2006) | ||
| Aeholton |
Davo - can you take a picture of your timing adjustment plate with marks scribed on factory setting and where you have it now? I moved mine last spring and it only pings now when doing a lot of stop and go (mostly stopped) like special event traffic or heavy commuter traffic requiring me to sit through 3-4 light cycles. I would just like to know that I haven't moved too far or maybe there is room to move mine a little more. | ||
| Davo |
Mathmatical revelation: I took a picture of the plate and did some trig and determined that the large marks indicate 10 degrees of spark timing relative to the crank. 10 degrees exactly! My previous post indicated 9+ degrees and though it was close it wasn't exact. (Message edited by davo on October 20, 2006) (Message edited by davo on October 20, 2006) | ||
| Shovelheadtom |
hey guy's ya'll win the math quizz for sure! i only know what work's. i'm the senior guy in the part's dept. not a certified tech. i run the back counter working with the tech's every day for 14 years total time.4 year's with the dad and now 10 year's with the son.i help teach what i know about old machine's and they teach me the new.what i laid out for you may be on the simple side but it work's. every time.just trying pass on some workable souloution's.and like i said right up front i suck at this computer stuff.this note is takeing for ever to peck out.by the way.at work i'm more the not allway's wanted but seemingly allway's needed guy.i'm one of the older guy;s with the older way's.and i ride every day no matter what.what i have learned work's for me every day. | ||
| Shovelheadtom |
hey .just imagine if each large mark where 10 degrees how it would increase the impossibilty of a correct setting in an assembly line.there's allway's room for error.i understand that math is supposed to be an absoult. but the mark's on the plate are as such so a tech or you don't have to use a micrometer or some lazer device to check or change timing .come on why would the company spend time & money on that many degree mark's.go ahead and figure the advance for that scale why??? | ||
| Shovelheadtom |
hey guy's. just checked timing plate 15 large marks.think 150 degrees of timing variance is nessessary on a push rod twin. | ||
| Davo |
There are fifteen marks and if they continued there would be exactly 18 for every 90 degrees of CPS. The purpose of the marks are for timing Sportys if you don't use the "lazy eight method" of static timing. Basically you set the engine straight up turn the CPS until it lights the module then mark the cone and move it to the initial setting looking at the index marks. For my Sportster it is 20 BTDC. Buells are completely different. The procedure is to have the TDC mark straight up in the window when the CPS voltage goes to 5.2 volts. | ||
| Davo |
Shovelheadtom, The reason that I nailed down the exact number was to make the fix clear to others. I have been telling people these bikes are at least 7.5 degrees early and by determining that you were moving yours 10 degrees and not just one degree confirms my solution. You post has been extremely helpful! | ||
| Shovelheadtom |
hey davo. if anything i offer can help keep a motorsickle upright and strong then cool!!! even with all the hi tech tool's at work it's very hard to get shop time.every thing here is done in the living room.except welding & painting.welding done at the garage, painting outside the garage.3 shovelhead's 2 buell's 1 nsu with hack 1 xr650r 1 tr200 1 pw50 1 cool old mini bike 1 1200 bandit 2 daughter's 2 dog's 1 parot and 3 ex wive's!!! oh and i'm sure the team does'nt know i exsist. at least i don't think any one tell's eric when an employee buy's a bike. i get the same form mail as every one else. | ||
| Shovelheadtom |
hey davo.to bad were so far off. we could probley have a good ride.be cool. | ||
| Davo |
Very cool Shovelheadtom, I got a couple of Sporty's an Ultra and the Uly. I do some welding as well, MIG, stick and some TIG. I also wrench on a few off road go fast bikes as well. My wrenching is a lot better than my welding though. It is rare that a day goes by w/o wrenching on something. I would rather wrench than ride.........Thats why I love the Buell. (just kidding) | ||
| Shovelheadtom |
hey davo. talked to factory tech support today. got new info on all that timing. your close.i'm close we're all close. 5 degrees between large mark's 2 1/2 degrees on the small. the scale fit's evenly around the timing plate 5 times. 360 div by 5 is 72 degrees per scale on sensor plate. the slot's in the plate are just long enough to let the plate swing too advance & too retard and still run. although math is not my strong point,and belive me i know how important it is!!! but i have the magic phone # to the great and powerful OZ !!! stay cool!!! | ||
| Davo |
shovelheadtom, In this case don't pay attention to the guy behind the curtain because Oz is wrong! The tech is right that there is 360 degrees on the cam but we are referring to crank degrees when timing. The CPS runs off of the #1 cylinder intake cam. The crank goes around twice for every single revolution of the cam. Therefore the cam represents 720 degrees of crank shaft timing. 720/72=10! Each large mark represents 10 degrees on the crank. If they had ever put a light on the engine they would know this. Give them a call back and break the bad news to the factory tech. Tell them to call Davo if they don't understand! Thanks for the heads up on the factory. | ||
| Shovelheadtom |
hey davo. se what mean about math being an absoult. corect info's the best info!!! the suck part is since i amount to,almost as high up the ladder as a flying monkey, i can't call OZ and poke him in the eye. minoin's will apear and no good will come of that. stay cool!!! | ||
| Davo |
Shovelheadtom, Understood, I consider myself a bottom feeder so I have great job security because nobody wants my job. It does allow me to speak my mind though. Well the reason for my pursuit on 10 degrees is that I have been trying to get these folks with pinging bikes to retard their timing about 7 1/2 degrees. That is just a shade over two millimeters. Now they can retard just a shade less than one large mark! I installed a scoop from American Sport Bike and it has reduced my running temperatures significantly. I will be posting some temperature data soon. Thanks for the reply! Davo | ||
| Shovelheadtom |
hey davo. i have heard of the scoop for the other side. saw a photo. way cool. i would think more directed air would be good. but i learned in avation air flow's can have adverse affect;s on them self's. but i'm an american and more is better!!! would like to se your bike. will have photo's real soon. | ||
| Davo |
Shovelheadtom, The left side scoop allows cooler outside air to enter the rear head area but it doesn't have a scoop effect. If it was pointed backwards it would be as efficient. The triple tree breaks up the air that would have been forced in the left side scoop. My fan would run constantly on cool/cold days at 65 mph. |
