| Author | Message | ||
     Terrible1one3 |
Being a former dirt bike rider I like my rear brake. The front brakes on these Buell's are amazing, but for christ sake the rear brake is shit. Is there a readily available bolt on 4 piston caliper system for the rear. Or even just a high quality lower piston, I just want my rear brakes to work good above 35 mph without having to stand on them. Thanks Mike 04 XB12S (retired) 06 XB12X | ||
| Mb182 |
agreed, you can get more brakeing action by dragging your feet! I was thinking of installing EBC pads and live with the rotor wear! MB | ||
| Teeps |
Terrible1one3 Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 Being a former dirt bike rider I like my rear brake. It's different world on the street. Take a couple of track days or better take a road race rider school. You'll learn why the rear brake is the way it is. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Yep...I agree. The rear brake is weak for a reason. The Uly has a steep steering angle and a short wheelbase. Not a lot of weight on the rear tire when stopping. Rear lock up is fairly easy. On the track, I seldom use my rear brake unless I'm adding a little rear to settle the bike. | ||
| Roadrailer |
All I can say is: it's different world on the street. Take a couple of track days or better take a road race rider school. You'll learn why the rear brake is the way it is. Agreed 100 percent. It's funny that most sportbike folks who use their brakes hard look for ways to decrease the rear braking force (pedal adjustment, drilling additional holes in the rotor, etc.) while so many Buell folks seem to do nothing but complain about the "weak" rear. | ||
| Aeholton |
I don't use the rear brake much. Too easy to lock up a rear wheel in a panic. Only time I really use it is for low speed maneuvering and it doesn't need to be very strong for that. | ||
| 250bultaco |
If the rear brake is so useless on the track then why did Mick Doohan go to such trouble to develop and adjust to a left thumb activated rear brake after his leg injuries? I'd agree that a rear brake needn't be a strong as the front, but as long as the rear tire is still on the ground it will aid in controlling and/or stopping the bike. The rear brake on my 12X is so ridiculously useless that I couldn't induce a lock-up in gravel, even if I stood on the lever. It's the worst brake I've ever had on any motorcycle. I find this to be a factory defect and will be asking the dealership to correct it during the next service. In the last 30 year I've owned upwards of 40 motorcycles, vintage, street, trials, ice racing, dualsport and enduro. I use both brakes alternately, depending on the situation. Relying solely on the front brake for all your riding is limiting your ability to react in situations of various traction. Any riding school, or track school will teach you to use all tools at your disposal, and the back brake is one of them. You learn to control rear lock-up the same way as the front. With practice. I expect that most sportbike folks are not necessarily trying to weaken the rear braking force as much as they are trying to widen the range of engagement and control. | ||
| Thunderbox |
Nobody said the rear brake isn't used on the track. And I don't think Mick has a Uly. My Uly has about 18000 kms and has been from coast to coast in Canada 2 up. I can honestly say I would not do anything different to the rear brake. The feel and modulation is about as optimal as it gets. The very last thing I want is rear brake lockup. Some may not like it but please don't tell us that it isn't any good. What do you expect us to say oh we never noticed? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I used to ride DBs as well. I loved the rear brake. Using the rear brake excessively on the Uly will get you killed. It will lock up as it is. I have been working to NOT use the rear brake on the Uly to brake off road habits. The times where I have gotten into short stop trouble have always involved use of the rear brake. I trail brake a little with it. I use it to keep the bike put at stop lights. I may get on it for the last little bit of slow speed braking, but I do 90% of the braking with the front first and finish off with the rear. When you jam on the front brake especially in a panic stop situation, the whole bike shifts forward (including the passenger). The rear becomes completely unweighted. That weak rear brake will lock it up like a mofo. I forget what Chad taught me at MSF, but I think like 70-80% of the stopping is provided by the front brake and that locking up the rear takes the largest portion of your contact patch (between the two tires) out of the equation. I use that contact patch for engine braking. I like it just the way it is thanks. | ||
| Fubar |
+1 | ||
| Jim_sb |
Are you serious? For hard braking on the street or track the rear brake is about useless, it will lock up, you'll lose control of the rear of the bike and risk inducing a high-side. BTDT. No thanks. Recent issue of Motorcyclist (or possibly Cycle World, I can't recall which) had an article about the Kevin Schwanz Sportbike School. They teach (and recommend) DON'T USE REAR BRAKE. A bike like the Ulysses easily has enough power to loft the rear tire using front brake alone, what's the point of risking an accident with the rear? Kevin had a great quote "I remember all 3 times I tried using the rear brake, because I crashed every time". Sure, if you're under control and want to settle the chassis going into a corner, fine. But in a panic situation the rear can be trouble. Off pavement is a whole different story, I use my rear brake there often with the Ulysses. Sure, the rear brake on the Uly is intentionally on the weak side, I think that is a good thing. Mine will still lock up when I want it to. I know, I've tried it. It does require effort which I prefer. Ride safely, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Stevem123 |
I agree with all the above in regards to the brake being fine as it is. If you think you need more rear brake then I suggest going back to the dirt before you kill yourself or someone else.  Otherwise go take a course on street/track riding. You'll prolly learn something if you keep an open mind about it. BC Steve | ||
| Xbimmer |
I've noticed that my rear brake at 6000 mi has broken in enough to finally be as effective as I want, limited as it is. The first couple of times I tried it, soon as I got home I checked to see whether it was hooked up! I'd never ridden a bike where I could push that HARD on the pedal and basically nothing would happen. Now that it's bedded in it's right where I prefer it, as assistance only to the front. Mostly I use it for final approach to a stop, or in parking lots and lowspeed stuff. Never in turns or curves on the road. The less I use it the less chance my right foot will abandon my brain in an emergency situation! | ||
| Stretch67 |
Theoretically, you can increase the mechanical advantage in a hydraulic braking system by going with a smaller diameter master cylinder, or a larger diameter slave cylinder. Not that I know where to get one that fits a Buell...  | ||
| Crusty |
Performance Machine made a nice four piston caliper that fit the rear of tubers. I know someone who has one on an S3 and he hasn't crashed because of it. The Uly is an adventure bike, not a flippin' road racer. If you want more rear brake (and I sympathize with you), I'd suggest contacting PM. I ride year round in New England, and there have been many times that any front brake use would have been an invitation to disaster. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Stretch, it's Japanese. You should be able to find one if you really want to. | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
Guys if I wanted a track bike I woulda got a gsxr750, Instead I ride and commute 9 months out of a 6 month riding season in Michigan on an adventure sport bike. The rear brake is super useful on a motorcycle with 6.5 inches of travel. A great way to avoid having my girlfriend fly over my head in an emergency is to use the rear brake (given it still dips). And trust me I'm not any super great rider, probably average in every way, but I do all my braking before the corner. I am a very cautious rider. Rear tire lock going straight coming to a stop is easily controllable. and once I am familiar with the brake lock up won't be a problem. Plus when I am off road going into a rutted corner i want to lock up to slide up into position. where with this brake i have a better chance of spinning the tire to slide it up to the rut. The point is don't bash my knowledge of two wheel riding. I know what a rear brake is for, I know what my motorcycle is for, I know how to control the bike, if I wanted a lesson on how to race on a track I would love to learn, but that's not what I do or how I ride. But thanks for the info and don't worry I don't plan on killing anyone by using my brakes anyway stevem123 | ||
| Stevem123 |
Sorry dude...Just got a little overzealous at work and took the line a little on the harsh side. There are a lot of dirt converts coming to this bike and many of them have never ridden a street machine. Rear lock-up is usually not a good thing ever on the pavement and often results in getting a nasty high-side. Like someone said above, let the rear brake bed-in and it does get better. Good luck! BC Steve | ||
| Roadrailer |
Terrible, I ride two up at least 50 percent of the time, and have no problem bring the bike to a controlled stop, even in an emergency situation, without sending my wife into a somersault. The rear brake does work, it's just difficult to lock. Locking the rear may work great in the dirt, but doing it regularly on the street is a great way to bite it. Not to mention that it's totally useless as an effective method of stopping the bike quickly. I hope you're not doing that two up. | ||
| Peyote |
my only question with the uly rear brake is that i use engine breaking more then i would ever dream of using my rear brake & coming from 03 xb9r thinking of getting a uly, i've read that the larger fly wheel gives almost no engine breaking causing more use of the brakes. this is a whole new experience for me since i prefer engine breaking in corners more then extra wheel break. no one mentioned if more rear-wheel breaking on uly works better in a corner then a bike with a smaller fly-wheel & more engine break. i know the answer is engine break for corners is much prefered for better control, but i'm guessing the uly larger flywheel was done solely for better handling for fire roads? my big question is if it's use is 97% for road use, then why go with the large fly-wheel & lose engine breaking? i'm no expert but if off-road use is less then 3% off pavement, then i like ducati's decision to go with smaller flywheel. big problem for me with that is i love everything about the uly & ride position of the duc multistrada 1000s ds heard is too forward. plus i love the uly looks. what's people's experience with the switch to a uly from someone who prefers & is used to engine break in corners? (Message edited by peyote on August 08, 2006) | ||
| Roadrailer |
I used engine braking quite a bit on my SV. The Uly does have less, but I wouldn't say it has none. Took about five minutes to adapt. | ||
| Peyote |
cool, so i'm guessing i can still be agressive in corner as before (w/ adjustments to bike of course). still curious to reason behind the larger flywheel, & if it's a worthy compromise? (Message edited by peyote on August 09, 2006) | ||
| 250bultaco |
My points were that the rear brake is a useful tool that will shorten braking distance, particularly during street riding. It shouldn't lock-up easily, and I don't mind a weak rear brake, but it certainly should be capable of lock-up with reasonable force applied. The brake on my particular 12X is completely useless and isn't capable of locking up under any conditions, even gravel. More power to you if your's actually works, but it's a problem on my bike that needs to be remedied. My apologies if it appears that I was damning Buell for installing such a brake on all the 12x's, as I know that it's simply not the case. The demo I rode at Youngstown HD had a rear brake that worked just fine, as mine should also. | ||
| Opto |
The Uly has no larger flywheel, unless I've missed some press release in the last 6 months. The thing behind the rear brake is simply this - if you were brought up on dirt bikes then you know how and when and how much to use it, if you weren't then you don't. The rear brake on all the XB12 models is as effective as a piece of wood rubbing on a wagon wheel. May as well not have it at all, less unsprung weight, trilogy of tech.  | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
thaks for the posts, compared to many import 4's and what not buell's big heavey fly wheel doesn't make for good engine brakeing. BUT the engine brakeing is still great tool and is still very useful on the road. You can still slow from 85 to 70 for a cop quickly by rolling off the throttle on the buell's EDIT (apparantly was incorrect, just figured buell would change displacement the easy way (Message edited by Terrible1One3 on August 09, 2006) | ||
| Mrvvrroomm |
Terrible...uh, just the opposite there bro. The difference between the 9 & 12 is stroke, NOT bore. Bores are identical. | ||
| Imonabuss |
The rear brake is absolutely capable of lock up on the street let alone in the dirt. Yes you have to push hard, but in my opinion, I darned well want to be pushing hard before it locks up, as I don't want any surprise rear wheel lock up when I am riding hard. Any discussion of it being designed wrong or a factory defect is bollocks. | ||
| Henrik |
I'd much prefer the rear brake set up like on the Buells. Imagine going into a turn trying to settle the bike with a bit of rear brake only to have it lock up the rear wheel with the distinct possibility of high-siding you into the next zip code. I'm spending both time and $$ trying to dial the rear brake on my track SV down - it locks up with hardly any effort at all. Not good in my book. Careful what you wish for. Just for reference; Buell rear brakes have always been "high effort". Henrik | ||
| Roadrailer |
Henrik, I know what you mean about the rear brake on the SV. Mine would lock if you thought about putting your foot on the pedal. It took me a while to adjust it properly. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Strong rear brake =  |
